Joe Rogan Experience #2206 — Chamath Palihapitiya Transcript

Transcript

0:00 The Joe Rogan Experience. You know, it's like. I thing, you know, it's like... It's when he's doing like gossip and stuff. Oh, that's right. He was a gossip guy news and you know journalists were really sort of the top of the social Nobody cares about that. It's either like it's totally, totally bad, or it's totally, totally good, because it just, it amps people up.

2:52 is what you'll be shown because that shows that you're engaging and that's the first few bites of it tastes amazing. you get totally shut out of it. And that's like the real problem. You build these antibodies in But what they'll do is they'll post something that says, two plus two equals five. here I think on X what you find is there's a lot more structural data but

5:42 content moderation on threads? I don't know. I don't use it. in, I don't know if you saw this, in the Bay Area But if you rip out things like AP math, growing up I wasn't particularly good at anything in school, but there were a few folks that get shut out and then that person that could be that Steve Jobs-like person, eliminating the concept of gifted classes. But the reality

9:12 Look how much she's getting ahead. When you have to do everything on top of hiring, it can be a nightmare. Four out of five employers who post on ZipRecruiter They got more ways to bet, more ways to win, schools to get really good at something. Remember like that show on TV fame? Yes. There's 330 million Americans in the United States. where their curiosity took them.

12:17 and then also like completely revamping how you teach kids. I think for a lot of those kids, if they found something that was really interesting to them, but let's just touch on this just in this one second. But what that means is if you go back and regurgitate? So we have to flip, I think, this education system. We have to way that humans can. It's gonna have different taste, right? So the way that we

16:00 what happened in the war of 1812. I don't like you can just you know use a what happens is the system a little bit closes in on you. So on the one side, they don't want to generalize. And then the crazy thing, Joe, what we did was we took the iPad out of the kids hand, and we said, you know, in slippage. And then what we did was we We just had to reset so at least in our example what we have found

19:25 And I was like, what are you guys doing? TikTok, they're like this, boom, boom, boom, boom. And it's helped. It's not a cure. But it just goes no devices, the kid feels zero social isolation but there was a crazy thing, Eaton College, which is like the most elite, if you will, a Nokia flip phone. They're not sharing things or Snapchatting each other back and forth, and the addictive

22:44 learn how to be a friend and to learn how to be better at talking to each other, social cues, all the different things that we rely on to learn how to being able to have a normal conversation and be patient in that conversation is going to be really valuable for you. end you have what's really visceral, which is, oh. And then on the other hand, you know, sometimes

24:57 They'd be like, thank you. Just look somebody in the eye, thank you. young human beings and their developmental. Yeah, exactly. you get these little bursts so novel. And what I mean by that is, you know, the last five or 10 years, I think why you feel this viscerally is And the problem is that they are in a cul-de-sac. take it and do all kinds of really interesting things. It was it was pure.

28:49 and try to course correct that just the internet just explodes. So we have a positive moment followed by you know call it 10 or 15 years of basically And I think we owe it to ourselves And one of the things that makes me most hopeful in these particular areas, or how people feel about us, Yeah, but like when you're here, it's very hard to feel empathy for this person,

31:41 are just bananas. I think. regional hospitals, so places that are poor, right, or places that are in far sorry there's still cancer inside your body. Three. So these women now go back The surgeon will take out what they think is appropriate. They'll put it into this machine, That's today because you have this computer and it's like prime time. But it's not just breast cancer, lung cancer, pancreatic cancer, stomach cancer, colon cancer. If you look at any

35:45 If you look at the periodic table of elements, what's amazing is like we keep adding. over and over and over again. But if you had to solve a really complicated problem, don't you think the answer could this next phase of AI. So what you said, which is we're going to have these PhD level robots and bends. It can just go like this and nothing changes to it. Why would that be important? Well, if you want to protect yourself from, you know, the crazy unpredictability of climate,

38:40 that's like so that's possible and I think there will be people that use these AI models to go and solve those things. very different archetype, right? Instead of the physical requirements of policing, some folks have tried to say that AI is the end-all and be-all and I think the better way to think about this is that think about your business, because you're occupying less time with the perfunctory

41:31 body weight, it's no problem. Pick that person up, transport them. Again, it allows very real. But there's a lot of people that just want a job, and these people maybe just aren't So I don't know how we solved this problem. But we have seen that problem two times. And each time we found a way. And this do think you are right that it will put a lot of pressure on a lot of people. But that's why we

44:17 Right. construction workers, all that stuff gets eliminated. That's a lot of people without a purpose. Just receive checks and have the bare necessities to survive and are content with that and then don't contribute at all the it. I would hope that if we do this right, this next leap is like that, where we are Yeah, sure. Australia on meth, you know, it's like the worst case scenario of the cast outs of society. Just like what you say is, it's so true, but like if you think about what that decision

48:52 Mars. Yeah, you could. You wouldn't know. Yeah, you know. That could be the future, you know, distance is the marginal cost of energy is basically zero. The marginal cost communication chips. We're going to build it with this stuff, which we simulated on a computer. And so they're going, at least it's been proposed, to develop nuclear sites specifically to power

51:45 Just don't forget the units, just remember the four cents concept. If the generation cost keeps falling, why is my end user cost keep going up? because it is aging, and most importantly, it's insecure. Meaning folks can penetrate that, folks Everybody's going to store their energy in a power wall. they can do a lot of stuff right off by it. material? I can find it, it's in an email that one of my folks sent me.

56:21 I applaud the people energy you know the most important thing I think that happens is you have a And the real problem would be if that is not a small handful of countries that have nuclear weapons majority, Sinhalese Buddhist. But you know, we were, they were fighting Hindu Tamil I think that folks don't really understand how destructive war can be, but also that

1:00:22 young, definitely you know Bay of Pigs. but it required JFK to draw a hard line in the sand and say where if you get it wrong nothing matters and that is nuclear war and you material science or, you know, optimists and go, it's all off the table because we will that were thriving, that were pounded into dust. What does that mean? At all and not only that there is no good guys people start launching nukes. Everybody's a bad guy and everybody's fucked

1:04:02 on the phone and talk about it. And when you put those two things together, what it was like in the good old days. You know, we're not the high school football star anymore. And that is all just so totally avoidable. ability to exit stage left and be okay with it? The other problem that America clearly has is that there are, there's an enormous portion

1:07:25 bringing over weapons and gear and the the windfall is huge the amount of money is huge and they do not want to shut that or more, ideally more, they probably would do that. reorient if you had an economy that could support it. So for example, when you build a drone, okay, what you being able to redirect that same technology into those systems that you

1:10:20 people convince others to use the things that we built. And I think instead of saying like there's like some crazy nefarious plot to always go to war, 30 or 40 years, all these forever wars, we were fighting over energy, effectively. economic prosperity, both of them are you know equally democratically governed, no problem. Oh, that place is cool. I think so too.

1:12:58 that is you get a bunch of people that are addicted to cocaine. you know. It's crazy. going to have to understand it the same way they understand cigarettes. Cigarettes, smoking, fentanyl-laced thing that's gonna kill you and Particularly alcohol which is one of the most destructive drugs to your health to relationships and families to society's how many alcoholics?

1:15:46 They were already off the rails. Okay. This is not like so for the Oregon to do it that way, I think it's a rich, tax the rich. If you're a person that had accomplished something wrong with you. Like if you were a person that was eat the rich, tax the rich, if you were a person And it permeated Portland. So that didn't fail because of the actual drug policy, right but more of the other social policies

1:18:37 And so this was during the Nixon administration. you're gonna have fentanyl overdoses. I know people have lost their children. I know people have lost their brothers and sisters to this. demand were criminals. There was at least 35 assassinations. with the cartel over there, you know, just like you had to play ball with the mob I don't think there's a lot of money in that the real money is in like meth meth cocaine

1:21:50 But in one day they find this creek that has dried up and they think that perhaps it's a misdemeanor to grow pot illegally in a state where pot is legal. but you can't process the money, I think, right? So you'd have a million dollars in an armored car and a bunch of guys like tailing the car for all that. And you know I think the company went public and I just realized

1:24:12 That would help. that are just 24 seven hitting bongs. Let's say this is 39 percent THC, which is very high, this And I've personally witnessed people who've lost their marbles. But what I think it does is it ultimately makes you more compassionate and kinder and and you smoke marijuana, you're gonna have a worse time. you're not freaking out about something. You probably, you're in a good place mentally,

1:27:25 So you think it's psychosomatic? It was like 150% proof the guy would just chug it. I mean it was... I completely agree with you. I totally agree with you. spent on stuff that was marginal, but it had a good label it's got a great bouquet, but these bottles are 40, 50, nineteen thousand. I've never bought one. I've tasted it once, because in Vegas I

1:30:40 It's going to be ambrosia. Yeah, it's a weird thing. So then the skill is like, it's funny, I'll tell you, this is how bad wine has gotten for me. or in South Africa or in Australia. And it just allows us to buy a bottle, try it if It's it's I think wines incredible and with it is incredible vine with this vine, but then they're gonna take, you know, cleave off this

1:34:02 ginormous potatoes like this. It's an incredible thing Oh, he's playing God. Because I've seen that before. They're terrible. Have you ever worn- Like what stuff? Yeah. glycemic load is much lower. I think the point is like the food supply in the United States, picture like, I mean I try to work out and I take pretty detailed like what's But when I'm back in the United States, so I get to be there, call it six weeks a year, right?

1:39:37 And my parents were making the same things because they wanted to have that comfort of I'm like oh, what did you do? What did you do like you ate a brick but over there? How much can you really bring to light and and what are we gonna learn about our food still bad for you. It's still covered in sugar, but at least doesn't have that Yeah, it's all garbage.

1:42:01 It's too hard. Sugar-free is great. I was like, sugar-free, I'm doing the healthy thing here. could blame all these coronary artery diseases and heart diseases on saturated fat when it They're coming on. one of the mega-mergers that happened was of smoking, instead of a cigarette, it's a Twinkie or whatever. Well, it's a failure of our regulatory process.

1:45:00 I found it much easier to stop smoking than it was for me to cut out sugar. When he stopped eating sugar, he's like, oh my God, I have so much energy. Like this is what I'm supposed to feel like. He had thought that it was just life. And it was like 10% of the total budget or something nutty like that. It's like some I don't even think you have to regulate it.

1:47:17 that they call ghost kitchens. I think that there is a way for food stamps to sit on top of that infrastructure and just Yeah, and I think that they are delicious. work to overcome it and you're still left with it. Then there's the physical pains. hand of the government is going to go and negotiate insulin prices and metformin prices I think what Bobby said is the cost of GLP-1s current course and speed would be $3 trillion

1:50:04 sure that people don't kill themselves with food. the right thing. So my point is in this example, the government's job in this narrow example is to get the best sort of a new way of programming the mind where it just changes whatever the behavior pattern is that accepts these foods as choices like And by the way, that stuff is funded, and that's what people need to know.

1:52:57 the fuck you want, but it doesn't change what it does to the human body. And it doesn't happens is there's a lot of horse trading, right? quote-unquote better way to do it. And there's other folks that decided that Isn't it like 42 billion dollars? in terms of giving people organic food. into the things that really matter. It's the size of this book. It's amazing. It's amazing. It's the size of this book.

1:57:13 and it auto starts to rotate, figures out where it is. straight to your cell phone and you won't need that dish anymore. But right now, the dish is a small iPad, and you just sit it down in a field, and we plugged I can guarantee you that. And it's fast internet too, which is even crazier. And why is this 2,000 pages? pretend to be working on their truck

1:59:48 The problem that you state is the key problem, which is how is this model trained? Right who got their hands on? Who are those people so right and it could be gamed as well, right? soldier. It's like this is so nuts. So that is a problem in that AI is not based on their understanding of the building code. instantly tell you, Joe, fix these 19 things. You fix those things, you go to the city,

2:02:53 tell you these things and say just pick which one. It's A or it's B. And I think Are you going to fire all these people that are in charge of government? Look at the difference between what they're able to accomplish with Starlink versus this $42 billion program that yielded zero results. They create incentives, and then those of us in private industry go out and try to meet those incentives or take advantage of them. That's very normal, okay? And a well-functioning

2:05:50 They use it to make road materials. They make building materials out of it. They reuse everything. The thing that we would What private equity does when they buy a company, an interface that allows it. Okay, what do you want to do? I want to upgrade the factory so that we can make a more high yield. Elon could do what he wants to do. There was a thing, I tweeted it out today. He cannot get the FAA to give him a

2:09:11 folks cut through all the red tape and get an answer quickly? How can other They're gonna be there how terrifying must that be I mean I for maybe you and me It's my natural place. That's great. That's just AI. Wow. Yeah, it could be way more. It could be way, way more. That's He was really stressed out because he had to stop smoking Oh, boy. Did you see this latest report? there's like real controversy about some finding that the

2:12:35 I don't know what they mean by course correcting. I think you'd probably spend send as many but see the I mean it's all a you know, like the universe sort of has these patterns that force innovation and constantly move towards further I mean, I was raised Buddhist, I'm not that religious in that way, we'll have discovered all kinds of different planets. That's an

2:15:38 So we know that this is not just a dream. I mean, it really is. Yeah. And that seems to be something that I would hope that the answer would be yes. positive. And I think that we need to be reminded of that somehow without actually get murdered. Well so that I think that you know why are a lot of people coming to America? A lot of the reasons, some are clearly political persecution, but a lot

2:19:50 That is some sort of ridiculous pie in the sky vision of the possibility of the future of war in the nominal sense. So I do think you're right. difficult thing to describe. It's a very difficult thing to express to people because any, we're so polarized when Go out there. need to do it. And when I did, what I saw was a bunch of decisions that turned out

2:25:01 That could be JD Vance. Yes. always think like what's going on here? And when I saw him and Bobby align, you He's like Neo in The Matrix. He's like dodging these bullets. and the Republicans are within error bars. Bush had one bite at the apple, on domestic taxation. And that can direct the behavior of governmental agencies. Okay, so people should decide what

2:29:25 issues, my honest opinion is that there's, you know, we're in error bars between the that are willing to do jobs. It's one of the things that I've heard, you know, there's a lot That's real. is sustainable. that opportunity, which is you would essentially in swing states, which is Ohio, what's one border to Buffalo and we applied for refugee status in

2:33:21 Here's what our life was like, here's what we did. And so when I think about, like, Americans not getting visa. Every year you had to get it there was a website, I don't even know if it exists anymore, but we would check what, you know, because when you apply for they probably are, some of them legitimately, are escaping some really bad stuff. redlining and all the Jim Crow laws that have set them back for decades and decades and

2:37:06 on this topic, you could at least explain to them. The problem is that people that live here that contribute would feel better about where things were going parties forever and have allowed them to have these regulations that are allowing them to Think an important thing to just notice is The radical reimagining says, And I think that, you know, what, where the media goes crazy, I think, I'm guessing, is part at the core part of what where the media goes crazy, I think

2:41:58 I think the media really gets out of, they get tilted. One example that bothered me was And then I was really frustrated and a little bit angry because I thought he was never lying to me. They dig their own grave a little bit, Cherry pick comments, she says. So my point is, I think we have to suspend this. of the questions and that she was told that there were certain things are going to be off topic or off limits like her record as a DA and also some other person that

2:44:57 He's a Navy SEAL with one eye. They're both trying to do what they think is right. through another, i.e. Donald Trump. excruciating pressure in the world? And I think what we want to find is someone, at least in that very narrow moment, will I think we are too. Thank you.