Joe Rogan Experience #2211 — Michael Shellenberger Transcript

Transcript

0:00 The Joe Rogan Experience. It was intense, man. I mean, it I made it to Brazil and back so put it that way. What was that like? forms of censorship we've seen in democratic countries. India has been pretty bad too, which is a tactic that we had seen You can't make a career as a journalist or a politician if you're banned from every platform. Fast forward to last month and they had a huge protest

3:11 and he's like, it's Schellenberger, right? Elon, they're having to negotiate this is do, is do you out of principle keep, you know, And what are they being accused of He's not actually in the party of Bolsonaro. That's the controversial former president. it had to do with labor issues, had nothing to do with elections. Criticism for it because he's going along with it. He defended the censorship.

6:06 but Lula was supposed to be this guy that was for the people and I mean I was you know, I was on the radical left for right, you know up until You know, my values did stay the same at least on those things Really? I met all these guys. I met Justin Trudeau's dad. Oh, hell. Yeah. Have you seen the photographs? It's crazy No. But anyway, so I mean, I asked Lula directly.

8:54 and to the Workers' Party and to Lula. that changed for the left everywhere. I mean, this is a way in which it's the same thing that changed for the left everywhere. Yeah. like what conservatives were. And then if you go to the United States, like the one it's counter-populist. So they're going at...Jair Bolsonaro, like Trump, is a it really wants to censor on COVID elections and migration. And they do the mass migration

11:53 under Biden, of course, has been happening in Europe too. I mean, the Democrats and the Europeans, they went so far with it that it actually hurt I mean, you know, I mean, part of me just wonders if it's related is that there is a there was a concern that populism, And for a variety of reasons, these deep state organizations, by which I mean, you know,

14:08 Oh, and they happen to be funded by George Soros. to take over the content moderation at Twitter. It's so fascinating because you of course we can see all the memos and we have it. And we've got these people that are really skilled and hyperbole, but I do feel like what we're seeing is totalitarianism. That this is, it's not tanks and torture chambers, at least not yet, but this instinct, this demand to control

16:37 little too late because there's just too many people like yourself and if you can... The holy grail for... I mean, it's like Sun Tzu, you know, the best way to win is by not having to fight, you know? So social media was a tool of US government statecraft and his Republican opponents in the debates And then Martin Luther gets ahold of the printing press

19:12 long story short, there's like a long period you know, they're sneaking the printing presses but still it's like, you're always, to make out of principle or pride, It made me, the whole experience, by the way, because, you know, when you're growing up can we criticize you for this? were like, we need a bill of rights, And so that's why it's so amazing is that, like, you just never, I mean, this history

22:33 you make a government based on speech. So this Orwellian idea that we hear, We've already talked about George Soros He went out and did this, you know, Which is just the wildest thing to say. It's weird that, yeah, like you're like, that's what he was thinking. When she was like, why Mossad operates in the United States amazing place where exceptional people

25:21 filming you. The client list hasn't been released. Yeah, they believe it. So I mean, I've heard people argue it. Yeah, they believe it. that we just talked about. that's established. When he was going through his divorce, But I mean, Gates, he just came out trying to tell you not to take vaccines. in order to actually, you know, it's not a sterilizing virus. It doesn't actually kill the

28:08 written about it the Washington Post didn't cover it and talk about how that's fine. But the point isn't I'm not arguing about the vaccine. I'm arguing that it didn't do what they said it did. And nobody's actually and then they just gaslight you as though that And we know that some ungodly amount of the population was vaccinated. are they of a particular political leaning?

30:16 So we know that here's a group of people that died well. What do they have in common? that people are connecting to the vaccine that no one is admitting, you know, and that I'm not a vaccine expert And the fact that they gave it to so many pregnant women with no tests on pregnant women. I'm working with a new colleague who's an I'll send this to Jamie, because it's quite fascinating.

33:20 And what probably actually happened was there was some sort of herd immunity and is also Yeah, that's amazing. You know another crazy statistic about polio? Wow. What's your bottom line on vaccines right now? The fact that he got away with all that. people doing things for money, knowing that people are gonna suffer because of it. in fact, I believe in,

35:35 I mean, we're seeing it on the on the on the trans medicine as well. gaslighting where everybody has now, I mean, I think it's unconscious, by the way. cognition. It's not like you're like reconsidering vaccines now that they, because what you should do Just, I mean, the most, you know, The way they talk about it is more like- It's also not the same.

37:48 All of them. Which is really wild, right? It's not trust the experts, especially when the experts are severely compromised. And of course, it can't do that, because science is just supposed to tell you how things are. where he initially came up with the concept of science. light. He went to bed exhausted and dreamed three dreams. He envisioned reforming all

40:56 before the scientific method came along and now it has become this weird thing that's There's a lot of people. think. face, you're cutting in on our racket. He must know more than me. They've proven it. Yeah, I mean, why not? You can make predictions of what would happen You are anti science if you are anti debating about science, that's right, or the at least the data

44:11 and Robert Malone, as soon as you're doing that, He's a very accomplished person in this field, of his analysis. And then we all learn. But instead, what do they do? They try to get a lot of the people that did the early pioneering work in part because the system reproduces its You have to play the game by the rules that's established by the people that are controlling

46:51 I mean, American Academy of Pediatrics, my friend Marty McCarrey just came out with this I was, I mean, when you read this book, you kind of look into it, you're like, what was don't give their kids peanuts. that I'm talking about, but the theory is that when you're but Bret Weinstein has made this argument. Now I don't know if the vaccine. I mean what's so amazing about that,

49:55 is like we're, we're working on, I'm working on this study of like the last Harvard president She said the crazy things about- And she was the DEI, going around and making the professors and the faculty all use this I'm gonna use your words? It's like something's going on in these There's all these things going for you, but it's classic emperor's new clothes.

51:50 That is a remedy to basically have people calling bullshit and creating the immune system response. you know, American Medical Association, and you know, I don't like how you drop it. and that's the big question is, you know, how is, what's happening in these institutions And this was what the founding fathers of the Constitution, I mean, it's such a brilliant system.

55:07 We see some of it. Where's the, you know, where's his social media posts? I was gonna say being a Loon doesn't seem to be disqualifying to be recruited into intelligence And when you find out that this kid was in a Blackwater commercial just two years before, He's a Black Rock commercial. trans people but the reality is the majority of the last few school shooters

57:16 Well, they say that, but of course, I didn't hear that at all. and he was in the house. very strange. It didn't seem like Paul Pelosi was, he wasn't screaming or in danger. He seemed very He could tell right away, like here it is. Yeah. Yeah. I mean. It was clearly mentally. Yeah. Yeah Yeah, nobody says that. or mental health care system, which is crazy

1:01:09 a bunch of things on you. then, okay, we have to take this holistic view of the body and the mind and the health where they don't even exactly know what the fuck Right. there's some people that take LSD, I think it's 1% as a tendency towards schizophrenia and they're gone. and they're tripping out on acid, Was this after the sweeping psychedelic acts of 1970

1:04:10 During World War II. And you get things done. I mean, Carl Hart, there's people that write with a level of self-control and a level of discipline, in your social life, positive results in business, your body? What are you eating? How are you sleeping? What kind of people you're surrounded started around compassion. That's where you get victimhood ideology. You should absolutely

1:07:08 It's your mentality, it's your behaviors, it's up to you. It's a completely liberate, it's what leads to the human potential movement, the self-help movement. to the black community you. We know the C-sections now, or we think it also undermines the immunity that you get Right. And when you ask people in the service of the country to go overseas and kill people and

1:10:22 introspective experience where you see your entire life and it's sort of laid out why your behavior patterns exist life. I know multiple soldiers where it's changed their life and this is illegal. And really try to understand what, get some real science behind the mechanism behind these Become schizophrenic like what is that? You had trauma from from say fighting a foreign war you were abused as a child or you were raped as a woman

1:13:16 gamble. These motherfuckers can't stop. And then you don't drink again for a month. if you want a better, stronger society, Incredible insight and has completely changed their lives and now they're better for it Especially if you're doing a drug today, because if you're doing a drug today, you're rolling the dice on whether or not you're gonna It's laced with fentanyl, and they die.

1:16:18 I think this panacea, this idea that it's a one-shop-fits-all, you go do ayahuasca, what the fuck they were doing. And they were raised by people who literally came over on boats from Europe to escape tyranny your grandparents. And then your grandparents raised your parents. And then you're here Some of them use the tools of fasting, and some of them use stoicism. Some of them use the tools of fasting and some of them use stoicism, some of them

1:18:22 And I think it's probably been going on through coming up with concepts of democracy, and they were trying to figure out society in a more equitable They don't even go that either Dutch government goes to 15% Okay. So here's my point Snoop Dogg smokes pot all day long when you hang out with that dude that dude You know, people lose their fucking way

1:20:50 that because it's always been legal and I think this is the problem with the You know, as long as you do it moderately or the right way. I quit drinking because I had a problem. I don't advocate prohibition of alcohol, You know for example we've restricted it to liquor stores out of supermarkets What's the deal with all that wine? If you drink all that wine, you could kill everybody in the neighborhood. No, but I mean, I think, you know,

1:22:21 Ah, wow, I remember. No one. Because why not? user. He was a guy that was studying the effects of these things and realized that there's a bunch allow free speech for immediate incitement to violence, fraud, humans telling them what to do. I've got most of them are opioid are overdosing. Did you say like 70 plus percent? 75 percent is fentanyl. So because it's so much more deadly than the pills.

1:26:54 addictive. Of course. And there's a lot of documentation of this. Not only did they lie, have pain because you just had back surgery or whatever so some of it is the the problem is then people profit off of how much they can sell you and when you have some called it marijuana. Marijuana was a name for a slang name for wild Mexican tobacco. Right. problem is you're so in other words you want these drugs to be less available,

1:30:00 It's crazy. In other words, the 112,000 people that died of drugs and drug poisons and drug overdoses last year are by definition the most vulnerable to those drugs. Well, first of all, we've already established they're getting poison because it's illegal. it after an accident. Pharmaceutical drug company came around and the FDA approved it and it was some sort of a medication that gave you the exact same effects as crack

1:32:13 And that's how they snuck in heroin. That's the trick. So if we didn't have that happen and in what's the wrong way to take it you wouldn't have the influence of the but remember Obama comes in So I mean, I'm not denying any of like, yeah, is how you use it. Marijuana, nobody's ever overdosed from it, nobody ever dies. You do cocaine in Holland? Of course there's cocaine there. Is there heroin? Sure. But they chase it,

1:35:44 the the black market for marijuana is still much That's part of the issue. In California. Even though it's legal in California, there's being taxed and because there's a black market. The black market is because it's illegal in other states. It's not because people don't want to pay taxes on weed. Weed is so cheap. you go in and buy weed. but they exist because it's illegal. So you think if marijuana were legal and across the whole United

1:39:06 Marijuana was legal in this country and you could grow it yourself. It's so I mean I think that's where it's headed. my favorite. Like I know some of the most motivated people ever, in cannabis that he doesn't think are achievable to explain to kids that there are some drugs had your own mental struggles, if you've had moments where... I know people that

1:41:29 How many people do we sacrifice every year because of alcohol? Michael, we've lost five million people this year You don't care about these diabetic kids? Fentanyl, the LD50 of fentanyl is so small, you could barely see it. for people in hospitals. Well, okay. So here's another. So this is, so I. But something that we know that people crime. What you're talking about is crime. So you're talking about

1:44:09 That's when the frontal lobe fully forms. There's a lot of substances in this country States just through, I mean there was some reduction in availability, reduction in advertising Right. that people make that are very bad that you should be able to make. I don't think you should make them. I don't think you should, suicide, and it's impossible to listen to people with their suicide and she's, it's

1:46:43 I mean what are the numbers of people that they helped kill themselves last year are have... because on the one hand, they also did the gender, Moroccan crime gangs and drug sales and gun sales, Some of the greatest kickboxers of all time Well, some of them, the best one ever was small. And they're very blunt, and they're very direct, know, manly men. And they're very blunt and they're very direct.

1:48:40 Right. and I see your perspective, I really do, And no one wants to tell people you can't eat cookies. experiences from psychedelics that have changed their life in a huge way. So I think the real problem is not these things. The real problem is like all things that people get to try out. but not the only difference is, well yeah, but the difference is like when you die

1:51:30 and then he started experimenting with them. huge amount of self-discipline and able to delay gratification, and I mean in they kicked their heroin and they were fine. Because they're fucking smart. Yeah in San Francisco so that he can get into recovery. The white guy gets arrested once and because or the EMT has to come out and revive you who often has already been revived.

1:54:17 instead, you know, arrest him, you know, I mean, if you go the route that he's recommending, cartel. it should be a choice of jail or rehab. Like, that's it. You got to go to rehab or you go to Yeah, it's way ahead. For sure? we had drug courts, it was imperfect, It happens in San Francisco too, apparently. And when Ji Jing Ping came to town, The idea behind it of it being compassionate is like there should have been a course correction

1:57:31 Of course he is. That's that's what we mean by pathocracy. Yeah, it's a sick bureaucracy that creates sickness Western industrialized educated societies. And they just talk about these core values And the results of that is like if you... Just look at the results in terms of the way people feel about life. and is a wonderful, lovely person who actually lives by the Bible, not a hypocrite, you're

2:00:05 I think it became a religion for a lot of people. shows up and they're effective who was a farmer in Indiana, lived to 101. is just this incredible pressure on the individual to make all these choices, you know? He didn't choose his occupation, he barely chose his, it's not just that there's two things that are going on. First, people just... The church didn't

2:02:46 You're dealing with a story told down by oral tradition for a thousand years, somebody writes And yet somehow, you know, they keep raising their kids I think by, I can't remember who, And the way they would do it is they'd be like, to climb up and get your, make your own food. those core values of self-reliance, It's like, no, actually it's completely liberating

2:05:02 Absolutely. Or that there's some injustice in the system, some systematic oppression that's keeping that they're like, that they're going to be victims of the society, that police are all People that don't, a lot of people do, Columbus. you have to give in to whatever their demands are homophobic or transphobic or racist or you're not taking into account all these other factors

2:07:40 Racism in the workplace and I'm sure it's true because some people suck remember but he sees all that stuff happening. There's literally nobody on the planet more capable of pushing back against Where you're you're the the grotesque exaggeration of police killings of unarmed black men, we have very specific instances where it was a problem. So it's like I don't think that

2:09:56 But yeah. But if you calculate the number of the increase of the number of black and so you get more black deaths. It's happening a lot of places where people are up in arms like our communities are And his perspective is that the super nerds are more in charge of San Francisco now. again. They've given courage to people to just not put up with it.

2:12:18 Oh, yeah. It's incredible. The fact that it's still good that the Brazil thing is unresolved I think that there's a way in which he's gonna probably I mean, I can't prove it, but I assume that that's the case. Yeah, they went along with you know, they froze Starlink's bank accounts You know, it allows for this incredible connectivity. was sort of like natural or something,

2:14:46 And my dad kind of being like, well, yeah, but here's why we do it that way. And it was They did censor the Nazis. that never got indoctrinated into the religion international relations, whether it's their political opponents, whatever it call on you for suggestions and questions? Like people that were involved in Russiagate clean up your own fucking yard before you come to us well look i mean it's like i fight i'm a

2:17:30 My favorite one was malinformation. that to, they would put that in the category of this is going to contribute to vaccine So it's actually, yeah, Aspen Institute, which is funded by the US government when the laptop comes out, they demand that it be censored. But the key thing there is that there It looks like it's a hack and leak. Well, also, the hack and leak was member also about the Hillary

2:20:48 She approved that letter within hours. When you talk to Martin Gury, who's a former CIA guy, It's wild. It's really wild. That Aspen Institute, Hunter Biden, program and brainwash these journalists and the social media platforms in supporters is the US government. around, they then did an interview he he she then You know from the making of the atomic bomb until today

2:24:16 I mean, these are people that they're recruiting them out of the Ivy Leagues the idea that they're that these agencies are incompetent so that's the prelude to the story. how is the US, what's the most sophisticated take by the US government? and has now just been ridiculing I mean, basically it's showing, ridiculing people, which is a very cruel treatment of people because it's such a devastating,

2:26:43 psychological estimation. Ball lightning is bizarre. I think they probably have some super sophisticated propulsion new wave of gravity devices that are going to start coming. one has been documented clearly throughout human history that there's UFO events throughout history like going back into the 1700s right and they're like uniform and this is why there's no evidence of them,

2:30:31 But there's something else to it. there's evidence of. So now we know that can be done. anymore. They're probably some sort of super sophisticated AI that ran amok and took over. Yeah? a Ryan's belt, like three stars. But did you see a shape of this thing or is it? No, they were just they were just they were just white lights that the lanterns were no like, there's nothing there, so they looked like, and they also kind

2:34:53 appear out of nowhere and then they would they would like it was in this All right. been published already. We're keeping this in. crazy. I did but did but did Grush mention Immaculate Conception? I don't Show more? It says zero there. Me? You ever wonder if maybe they're fuckin' with you, But at least it's not behaving like something out of this world

2:38:29 of people. So the idea that anti-gravity was then sort of like, oh yeah, we just did that From another planet, and I saw these struggling apes. I would give them some hints yeah Yeah, if they think they say I have all the information like how could you? Yeah, how could you? Holy shit, like what are they doing? And if it's not ours, holy shit, right?

2:41:13 And this is somebody that is either in government but it's called Immaculate Constellation. I was told by a... I had it confirmed by a They said hopefully later today. Nothing later today. because they said they were gonna respond and they didn't. If they have a program like that. shows, go on television and discuss all these different disclosures. And you can't tell

2:44:03 That that exists Because that's essentially what it does. I would have all these people if the government is running a disinformation campaign that the government is hiding information. American people. So if that's, so my view is look if you think it's which is the heads of the military and intelligence careers. If they lie to Congress, if they misappropriated funds, there's a lot of weird

2:48:08 we are not alone and you're hiding that from the American people, you've already made a So they protect their career with lies. a video? Let's see. Yeah, maybe it's a lantern, but... Oh, wow. It doesn't have the like a paper. and it looked honestly weirder than this. No, it was not windy at all. So I'm not suggesting there was anybody in there. Look, there's two or three things that come together here and that they're starting to fly together

2:51:11 Jamie, this is obviously a lantern. What is that other one? But there's a really cool one of this canyon or ball lightning just comes out of the ground this canyon And it's really weird. Oh, look at the little pretty lantern. That looked weird. and they say that there is this very large database of high-quality videos, still photos, So some incidents that have not been reported.

2:54:44 scared. You know, most You looking for more videos? Right, but you keep sending videos. Well, I'm just being thorough, dude have something. I'm very confident that the government is not revealing all that it knows and that Aero, You thought that the orange orbs were something that they weren't or whatever. And you must have formed some sort of a personal opinion on what's going on, or at least you have an inclination towards what's going on. I mean, I think that if you read through the histories,

2:57:44 that are not comfortable coming forward yet those capabilities. Well project blue book was essentially designed to ridicule the people that thought they saw something that they're like, it's like journalists, need to pass this disclosure legislation. And anybody who, in my view, who anybody that's like But what would it show? Like, what did they say?

3:00:45 I'm not saying anybody is. of I mean, I think if they were like, actually, the abductions are all real, and we signed of them. We do that to primates? Joe, you've got to go see gorillas in Central Africa. The gorillas know we're there. And I found it. Well, was that so hard? also refers to USAP. true? I would. If I was really running a secret government UFO retrieval program and we were

3:04:39 I mean, like, because they always go, Yeah, maybe. The odds that this is it are fucking dumb. was assassinated, they've had control over everything, including the presidency, right? He's on the list of the employees at Los Alamos labs. That's a fucking bullshit And if it has been going on for a long time, It's like person coming out of the closet, didn't release all the JFK files, he said because some of the people involved

3:07:54 You could lose your career if they blame one person That would be one way to solve that problem. ad hominem character assassination, you're like, well, wait a second. Plenty of dirtbags That there's something, there's some other agenda going on than just being like, no, the hands of these people Thermonuclear weapons and are enforcing Leave us alone. And let them do whatever they wanna do. But then what

3:11:07 Well, maybe they're protecting us. It did. They tag them? finding out where they go. If you're going to be the type of thing that can figure out how to get here from another wisdom to not do it. but we don't have the wisdom. I think there's this furious battle of trying to claim ground and control technology's influence 100 years from now looks like.

3:14:32 It's amazing. your writing and all the work that you put out I appreciate you I appreciate There's plenty of other podcasts Thanks, Joe. Thanks, Joe.