Joe Rogan Experience #2228 — Josh Dubin Transcript

Transcript

0:00 Joe Rogan Podcast, checking out the Joe Rogan Experience. podcast about a month later. I'd be a bit of a hypocrite if I started calling him guilty before he has a I mean, yeah, I don't, you know, there are no words. And the media shoved that straight up my ass I mean A lot of people say say I'm so sorry need help. a person who's convicted of a violent crime and putting them in jail with violent people

5:33 mirror out and look straight in it and say like what did I do wrong? You did nothing And I think that where I've landed is that he didn't let me down. long sentences like that is less than 1%. It just happened to happen on a case where to make headlines. I realize something though that... ZipRecruiter will save you so much time and money because they have smart technology

8:48 to try ZipRecruiter for free. Download FanDuel and get more from North America's number one sportsbook. Please play responsibly. I can't apologize for giving someone a second chance the practical day to day from the deep psychosis inducing confinement and everything else and Like Sheldon, I arranged for him to be speaking But I don't know. And I frankly don't want to know at this point because someone lost their life. And that, you know, I think unfortunately for my mental health, I just wear that stuff.

12:54 And I have to put that on my shoulders. that I can focus on assimilation more. I didn't want to meddle too much in that been two schools of thought in the reaction. I mean, I got pretty nasty hate I'm able to say, okay, thanks for the fuel, thanks for the fuel. But I have to be a big enough person to look at myself and say, well, what can I learn from this and what could I do better? Because, you know, I was

17:38 which is a pretty rough prison in New York on December 6th, to try to get some of the therapy and the benefits of it. literally changing their mind, changing their perspective. significant efforts towards rehabilitation. And one of the best ways to do that is to people with PTSD coming back from war and, you know, has espoused the, not only the efficacy of it, but how remarkably different

21:11 even if they committed the crime? Or, as you said, are we really going to try to rehabilitate people? something that should be reserved for good people. Or that there's some like, it's for people that are like fucking off You know ensuring that they have the proper training accreditation so that they're not always homicide obviously, but a lot of people have done something that, but for

24:29 I mean, you were the one that said you should really think about this, and my therapist Doesn't exist it was the abortion one that got 58%. I might be wrong about that. But in any event, I don't That's what it was about. the fuck his motto was, drop out. Well, it's propaganda. I guess, tribal mentality that you're either like us or you're like them. And everything that you mentioned,

30:29 that has probably way worse side effects, convince the people that are in these penitentiaries I think it's much, much more established now Psychedelics Act. inevitable and they threw water on it and they did a great job. truly are all one and that the way to make things better for everyone is to make things better for the most trial. I was like a kid. I was in my late 20s and I was met with him to help him pick a jury on a case and I had read about

34:53 outside the jail to be able to get even with the window so that they to say, what the fuck is this about? I want to explore the messiness and the gray areas of what it means to exist as a human being. because I talk about the problem of race. has been like to grow up as a black man in this country. And it stops me in my tracks when I think about it, when I talk about

37:56 and get re-sentenced and look what he did It's just that you're going to have those people. Why you get attacked sometimes some people try to send it to me? It's funny. Hey, man, fuck off the invitation to come on the show. Good things and I just got to keep on working in that direction, not let what happens slow me down, try to would have been to say, well, fuck this guy.

41:29 You brought on some incredible people and you've told some incredible stories. pays attention to your case. and how they can get away with turning 34 misdemeanors, essentially one misdemeanor, about how he fucked them. Is that what we're worried about? Are we worried about World I got this call. What is the crime here? What I mean, with regard to that particular case, first of all, the

44:51 was attacked. Anyone that would speak out. And there's this fear for good legal minds to get deciding whether or not they're going to dismiss that case. And if you remember, the drum that to make an example out of, tell you about in a moment, right before the election for him to become DA gets This is in Lorain, Ohio, Lorain County, Ohio. They have nowhere to go with the case.

49:09 He was also a drug addict. reward money? And the officer says, let's turn the tape recorder off shows up and says that Al Cleveland told him that he murdered Marshall Blakely. So prosecutors' offices have something called a conviction integrity unit where they say they'll re-investigate the case. lawyers come in. I'm going to do the right thing. And now that he's been indicted, he

52:29 and I'll give you the link at the end and I want to tell you the rest of the all over the place and you just don't always hear about it. if they were available for 18 million dollars. You know how much money you would make for that kind of property? It's magnificent. Paid the loan off with interest. Everything was fine. There's zero victims historic landmark or something like that Jamie? Right, so then you really can't do

55:52 was sold next to it, or a home that was sold next to it. There was 50 million loan and then defrauded the bank and then defaulted on his loan and then Well, hopefully, hopefully it opens people's eyes. Look, there's a lot of white collar crimes And they come up with some loss calculation isn't a case to be made. And hopefully, you know, regardless of what side the political

58:51 Yeah and then two assassination attempts. Jesus Christ. You've got to be with us or them. I mean, what was happening, well, this was way back when, well, I think it was days before just say, listen, I obviously, I watched a little vignette about this family who was prosecuted for their truant child, and it ruined them. And the prosecutor sitting in the room, like, it wasn't that they weren't

1:02:33 way for me to get citizenship. And she said, so I just can't vote for anybody but him. if they could do it to the president, You're gonna spend millions and millions of dollars it. I mean, listen, I feel terrible, but I feel different about some of the cases. Like, But he can't. Who's his facts? Rudy Giuliani and my pillow? a couple of weeks ago, he was saying the election was, this election was rigged

1:06:20 votes was like 75,000 that switched it one way or another. And just you can imagine if you're bringing in millions and millions of people and you're But a significant number of them were in the country. If you're bringing in 10 million people, you have quite And how many of them? See that? Is that the two? come on, man. You know what's weird about the one, the 2020 that we keep going back to is the amount

1:09:06 anymore. It's not a pandemic. Sounds good. Seems crazy. It does, but it's not a to me. it easier for illegals to vote. And you had to be a person of extraordinary skill and talent required an ID and they didn't let my wife... Well California literally passed a Yeah, I did. If you live in LA, it's another one. and this is why I registered finally as an independent.

1:12:29 you need to give back in a way that how dare you not give more than half your lives they could show you all these It's the guy that got busted in the middle of the pandemic wearing no mask indoors, eating Why does great hair get you so far? a full head of hair. great orator under indictment right now. He's got two months left. Like I said, he now knows, according

1:16:04 tries to get the reward money they is because Al Cleveland wanted him to work off a debt we're not giving it to you. And he says, then I'm not testifying. The judge throws him in jail. He's in jail. He is cool in his heels as they say. and says he witnessed the beating, he witnessed other details of the crime I'll be the first person to follow it. I'm gonna get on right now and be the first person to follow it.

1:19:28 to Alfred Cleveland, who I knew as Monday, this man. There's no forensic evidence, no eyewitnesses, nothing. There was no theory, like drug deal gone wrong, something? I thought that the Secret Service's purview was the President, The FBI calls the prosecutor in Lorraine County and says, him there, threatened his life. He was sat him down and smoked crack with him to calm him down.

1:22:51 he gets on the stand and before he testifies, the judge says to him, have you been advised? And the judge threatens him with prosecution. And they tell him, we're going to charge you with perjury if you tell the truth. and now he comes and wants to tell the truth Al Cleveland's wife Roberta Cleveland saw this DA by the name of Kim Corral, who you actually had a good laugh over one time,

1:26:21 remember this? Al Cleveland, we've established Al Cleveland's alibi, You remember what it was like. from like 10 at night till three in the morning. How was she murdered? Her roommate Epps Raymond Epps is found a Why? And the FBI told the prosecutors that he's a liar. And these guys are still, two of them someone else and his political opponents attacked him you You know, human beings, we sometimes get in our own way because of outside forces,

1:31:55 way that you could look at this evidence. And this is why I think it's a good idea for, for rather than give a snapshot of a case And when they write a letter, they'll do it more forcefully, or they call him and say, You can write, you can call. I don't think I've ever had a case, ever, where the sole alleged eyewitness recants apartment they go to the apartment right they don't spray it for luminol. They don't see if there's...

1:34:55 There was an eyewitness that saw her that night with like a black eye, begging for money prosecutor and says this guy is a liar and he goes in for reward money and for So in other words, if someone makes up a story and then they come back and say, Yeah. that gets wound up in this? And for the life of me, I don't understand why it doesn't And I said, well, there is something that you can do

1:39:04 is an alternative suspect. not only to get the bill made from a misdemeanor And he goes, it's not happening, Josh. And this I think is a rare opportunity Why not do it? At Free The Ohio 4 on Twitter. We threw this up. And you know, the sad part about it is, is like, I hope that people don't say, well, We don't know. People do desperate things in desperate times. Depending upon your environment,

1:43:26 You should definitely not imprison them Right? based on you know not having a complete picture of what they might have more compassionate human being, a more understanding human being. You get to And I promise you I'll do better in making sure that I'm a little bit more plugged into treatment he was getting and I said you know this just isn't right you don't

1:47:14 Clinic at the Pearl Mutter Center, we've had some terrific folks including the But if you're a person that's introspective and I know you are if you're a person that is hard on yourself when you make mistakes and but turning comments off is a nice thing because you can And I said, yeah I am. And it turns out that he went to high school with Rodney shining a light on this stuff

1:50:37 have actually exonerated people. Yeah, I thought this one was probably better off just me. Hey, listen. But he's actually going, I'll leave you with this. endings, right? Then we give to the bad stuff. and have this perspective that the bad people go to jail. That's why they like it when a celebrity falls, like a P. Diddy gets arrested, because they

1:53:29 look at all the girls look at the yacht look at the car look at the jet look at It's like showing your stuff makes you famous. and I'm not talking about that guy, getting divorced. It's god damn, how many times can JLo get married before the next But, you know, whatever. You know what I find difficult? Well, the news itself outright lies. It's not like a conversation like we have where

1:57:18 about white supremacists saying they're very fine people on both sides. Did he say that in the same? Oh, yeah. Oh, you can see it. Go to the JRE companion Instagram, So you could see it here. Excuse me. Are we going to take down, excuse me, are we going to take down, are we going Now- Said that over It should be illegal to say that, because it's not true.

2:01:26 of the person you're running against, him of having created the problem I'm just saying you can distort it. if you're accusing him of that. Here's the here's the thing. I think they all lie. I remark, there's not a single, it was some remark, Dan Crenshaw posted all of the soldiers all the the numbers She still refused to answer a fucking question.

2:04:27 They didn't fact-check her on that, something that should be immediately fact-checked. that are moronic and nonsensical sometimes, He pardoned Jack Johnson. He pardoned one of my clients. I think that he has done Houthi attacks in Yemen over three thousand four hundred troops are engaged in Iraq and Syria her Right. The people that were there for the wrong reasons need to be condemned

2:08:15 So then you start to wonder, Yes. put my head down and get to work on what I can work on. Yes. Well I think that's Thank you for saying that. They think that this control of social media by the government which we would have had pretty much fully We were on that path. of the reluctance of prosecutors not to do the right thing or what their conscience tells

2:11:34 Or you have to be a fucking sociopath. It's either or. And you know, like it's a funeral. the most change happen are the ones that can sit talking to my cousin about it and I was trying to help her explain that just You have a disagreement. especially going to Florida where the laws on abortion ain't the same as they are in New York. I really do. You know, it was-

2:16:05 I'm really, really, really appreciative of this. And, you know, if that can't shake the