Joe Rogan Experience #2234 — Marc Andreessen Transcript

Transcript

0:00 Hello. Good to see you. Thanks for having me back. My pleasure. Good to see you. Where after an election. And there was that moment where the world was gonna head in two totally different directions, right if he got hit What kind of horrible karma. And that gentleman being able to pull off what he did, There's no toxicology report. This is like the rapid cremation.

2:25 I wonder what they can actually find. When things are relevant and people are paying attention to them is you have a couple of and go with astonishing speed and shock. which is this like, it also could have been or the one with just like incompetence everywhere? And he was like a bad shooter and then he became a great shooter. Okay. All right. Right. That would have.

5:12 us a bootleg copy of the Zapruder film. But when things like that happen today, Voting works. Yeah. Yes. Yes, I was like, wow, voting works. the government to suppress information that would have altered the effect of the election. What was the general attitude about all that stuff when it was revealed? If you got the YouTube files, they bad judgment calls.

7:27 of Congress doing the same thing, which is also illegal. And then there was a lot of Trevor Burrus Stanford? is going to come in and carve all that wide open. located in Ontario. Gambling problem? Call 1-866-531-2600 or visit connexontario.ca. Yeah. Sort of. Well, that's not an NGO. Like censorship. to censor American citizens in the government, a hitman. Like it's not okay to murder someone, but you can hire someone to murder someone

10:48 it might be a subpoena, it could take many forms, And so there's this overwhelming hammerblower pressure of governments, activists, universities, and companies Like, are you bribing them to support you? just how that system works. It's just expected. And then I think you have other organizations on the production, but she was not paid for the interview.

13:11 talking about yeah and also how much does it cost to do an event yes how does million. But that was a weird one too because a lot of people thought Beyonce was gonna do a concert right and she just went out there's the even stinkier version, arguably, Yeah. Unless it's your company, you're supposed to say, But this real scandal, in most cases, so much, so much so that like Joy Reid was on TV today talking about saying that Trump

16:45 That is so wild. And in the last, you know, four years, it's fallen off a cliff. Question I've been asking myself is when will the actual, And handsomeness came into effect. it's not all the way there. I think this is it. I think this there's an argument You know, I think these call her daddy shows and all these different shows that she went on Right, but that doesn't work anymore.

19:01 And I think it's a fascinating timeline too Because you can go on these systems shed GPT or Claude or these others and you can you can ask you know And that's going to be a big topic And very logical, very straightforward. You start out, at the very least, you start out using it as a tool. You could imagine that happening more in the policy process and in the political process.

21:34 as they say, the spam in the can, you don't have the human body in the plane. No, like I think it's gonna be common to have like And it really changes, and you needed the most equipment. that normally would have won will now lose. I'm sure you're aware of all this UAP disclosure jazz that you see on television. coast of San Diego, where there's a place where you would test stuff like that.

24:02 And so my speculation would be that some of the stuff is you know, the Chinese doing something similar of the time. Interesting. For the record, I'm want him to shoot them down. Hmm interesting you know, did it recently get here? Yeah, are uplifting or horrific. Yeah, evil people doing evil things are possessed people would apply what would a demon do, what would angels do, what is the will of God and what

26:48 religious history scholar and he says that medieval people would have had a And you know we're gonna just we're gonna struggle, and we're gonna you know we're gonna catastrophize We're going to have to open up our minds to the kinds of as a religion. Well, I mean, of course, the big difference between woke and those traditional religions as woke has no concept of redemption.

28:45 people. No kidding. sure you know people, they lose friends, they lose family, that are very sophisticated trolls and It's like all the outcasts of Twitter, all the people that were like, I can't take this. marketplace of ideas like okay But it's also weird for them to not want any pushback at all. Like don't, I want to go on Instagram. I want to, it's like, it's a fascinating education

32:08 Access the marketplace of ideas. 100% convinced and it's it's fascinating to see all these different kinds of And you're going to end up with complete stagnation. Right. Yes, there has been a lot of emotional incontinence. I think he's a brilliant guy and I think he had very good intentions, but he was a part And he just didn't have the ability pounding.

35:19 By the way, the new name for it, of course, is Blue Cry. Oh, okay. Well, I also found it fascinating that when there was any sort Yes. you can't just like say. I can't say let's go join ISIS and let's go attack Washington. And then obviously... I think it's fantastic. And there's lots of people on the far left and the far right. It really does welcome all commerce.

38:22 and so the the rule they've asked me to comply with is I'm allowed to write essays, for example, in Substack, Because otherwise I inflame people too much. I drive people too crazy. No. and it was a debate about economics, And I went hyperviral in every time zone in India. Americans have a different we Americans experience history differently than almost everybody else

40:31 I experienced a small version of that recently because I said we shouldn't be using long because it appears that that's what they've done. It's not their fault, because you haven't, it's your fault because you haven't explained it. Do you also think, while you're writing, ancient civilizations and we had these fascinating subjects and one of them that came up was

42:27 We're hitting the third rail everybody get your rubber boots on you know let's let's uh whatever, discipline, disciplinary board for reading a copy of Mein Kampf. It's so awful to think that if you read about someone horrible, you support them. essentially talking about is the year 1999 America versus 2024 America. Imagine a shift Look, the German people went along with it, right?

44:27 Because those steps have taken place multiple times the prayer era has all had horrible moral problems, disasters, catastrophes, wars, and 100%. to tour the ruins and I was like, oh, I wonder when it all went south. And we don't want to think that could ever happen the world and we're gonna carry this on. But probably not, like historically. I mean, what

46:50 Egyptian civilization endured for about 3,500 years. I bet it was more than that. And it's sort of Roman Republican Empire and it sort of helped what you consider as dynamic phase, sort of vital phase ran for a few, and the theme in the letters is basically They're completely focused on their clothes So he kept railing, he's like, stop with the fishponds.

48:52 he's you know surrounded his family loves him and like you know grandkids And I think we've had a pretty long stretch here It's not just him, it's Vivek, Ramaswamy. he's a compulsive liar. From hard work and dedication to become who he is now. Like that's the kind of guy that I like actually step up well this is what's missing from today's secular society

51:31 their religion. It was wrapped up in their religion. They knew exactly what was expected virtues and all these, the stoicism that he espoused. It was just even more amazing. know, he's very, this very deep, deep, these are very deep, important. My favorite, my And you still have to get up and do your job. It's amazing how much it resonates. What is this life like in like if you want to take like Miyamoto Musashi?

54:43 Right. Yeah, that's right. Yeah. And look, I think if you're somebody like that or You have this like incredible sense of groundedness and you either do it or you don't do it. Yes. keeps coming and keeps coming and your job is just like stand there and take it metaphorically. No. Although every now and then. Yeah. The alternative timeline. Yes. So it's another set of people we don't have to listen to.

57:27 Really? into any purple place focused in New York and California, which don't matter from an electoral standpoint, very little popular support for once you got outside of these, you know, heavily Oh, right. we gotta get rid of him, and women are gonna vote, And people really don't like being talked down to. and it's always we this, we that. connect their own personal identity to other people agreeing with these ideas

1:01:26 It flipped to where, at least today, And so that's a very interesting inversion that happened And then basically if poor people get any money, it's going to be because the rich people They did it. from the government. 100%. is clearly not sustainable, it's not going to work. You have more things happening. Because if you grow faster, then your economy can catch up to the debt, and you can pay

1:04:28 ones that win these broad, we should win global markets. Like our company should be the global there to be lots of welfare programs and food assistance programs, all these things, I would Yeah. giving them Right, that's right. win or the Republicans. I'm in America and if the Republicans didn't give me any money and they want to get me out Well, Hispanic people generally are very hard workers.

1:07:46 Yeah, I was completely freaked out. So a group of us, a group of us went out to dinner at a restaurant in Palo Alto and you Wow. oh, thank God, because we're just depressing ourselves He thinks this guy is great. He thinks this guy is fantastic and he voted for him. And in some cases, you know, the criminals are coming across it was my first glimmer of like, okay,

1:09:54 And so from like zero to 18, I became, I became a fully assimilated Californian. no, no, no, like that's just like completely, that is such an impoverished worldview of But it was that conversation that kickstarted it for me. and liberal democracy, and then also right-wing thought, And I just stopped assuming that because I read it in the New York Times that it was true.

1:11:48 I went to Hillary's first post-election loss speech, And the Russiagate stuff is in full, full-blown display and I and I go there and I'm like all right this is gonna And so that got me thinking and then the Russiagate stuff unspooled and I was like, the whole this data set on user behavior that in theory there's And then there was this company called Cambridge Analytica

1:13:32 for a decade leading up to 2016 And it was Facebook is the most evil company of all time They do today in their way. You're trying to ship your products, And then maybe the message doesn't get out. But I bring a little notepad along, And I started making a list of all of the people Reed Hastings and his wife are very enthusiastic left-wingers. I don't think she was completely wrong. I don't understand that one. Yeah, honestly if they didn't want Trump to win

1:16:51 Because we at that point sharp as a sharp as a tack. My favorite was the, remember, the, about earlier this year was the invention of the It's claimed to be out of context, but it actually turns out that it's that just simply shows you something. Right? It's claimed to This guy did this insane Let's put the headphones on to watch this because it's so crazy

1:19:01 What do you think of that? Done an amazing job like really knocked it out of the park with a solid speech Formulate, you know get AI to do it that we know are real. to have people around them with cameras all the time, whenever they put out a statement, Where they don't even read the actual paragraph with Mike, which might be Like in the year 1500, it was all these terrible rumors

1:21:53 upright people. newspaper without telling people that it was all him. So he had all these We assume they had it all figured out. The whole thing just didn't happen and now there's this big debate about like did they And if you wanna actually know what's happening, So that would be the solution to deepfakes the blockchain. I do generally have hope, even though I look at the pessimistic side of things,

1:24:00 than there are people who are tyrants. Yeah. to information than we did yeah there's so much better training capable and with the woke ideology, how former Special Forces guy said that is not working. Like it's your, like being an exclusionary party and kicking people out You can't have a political party that doesn't win. It then took Democrats 12 years to get to Bill Clinton and to actually win again.

1:27:31 Oh, I, yeah, oh, 92. She was talking about the penalties that illegal immigrants should face. And Hillary and Joe Biden and Dianne Feinstein and all these people wanted to build a wall. Dianne Feinstein, our senator in California at the to pull your way back and become more normal. And I think again that would be brilliant. Like, that's the guy. Like, that's a president. Now, by modern standards, of course, he was fucking brilliant. It was brilliant, like that's the guy, like that's the president.

1:29:31 the Biden administration? Clearly Trump is less pro-war. Clearly Trump wants to end the wars. like the fucking polar shift is so dramatic. Yeah Madness that they're gonna have to course-correct which is just logical. There's there's no way they're gonna keep doing it the same way or double And the difference is the United States is the formal system of the government and the politics and all

1:31:47 proposing that would move us in that direction as opposed to the way things were going? Yes, I mean it has to be real. Yes, exactly exactly and Ilana's programming in the back It is time to carve this government back in size and scope. is we have this thing called independent federal agencies. So like for example, we have this What does her agency do?

1:33:28 How so? Exactly, like they did to Kanye, my partner Ben's father OK, here's a great thing. No. Really? And they debanked him for that. And so, and then you go to this thing of like, well, there's no, this is where the government and the companies get intertwined. Back to your Of course, right is their private company. And so it's this it's this sleight of hand that happens it

1:35:37 And then this has been happening, by the way, also in legal fields of economic activity and then gun shops, just like your gun manufacturers, tech founders, crypto founders, and then just generally political opponents. It's been a big recurring pattern. God. Right. It's not through regulation. So what happens to those 30 tech people that you know? just happens. And again, it's really, really important. There's no fingerprints. Like there's

1:39:40 We understand the flow of power as it happens, but when you're on the receiving end of this, years. This is a fun twist. Whoa. Now trying to be a company with a Wells SEC under Biden became a direct application of exactly so DEI Nothing ever happened in a hearing that ever changed anything. And anyone with me because because anybody with crypto became a politically exposed person because crypto was politically controversial, right?

1:42:31 And look, there's an argument in the long run that this is all unconstitutional because will be even heavier. Especially if you've already had your life upended. to get poisoned. Well, the trucker, you know, the other great example is the trucker strike up in Canada because the truck because the trucker strike in Canada right was gonna jam up these cities because it was that the threat at the end to the truckers and the Canada trucker strike. Because the trucker strike in Canada was going to jam up these cities because the farmers,

1:44:26 Like you can't, right, the theory would be but it's just an example of there is an agency And so they donated to these truckers, and then they got their bank accounts taken away, soft totalitarianism, which is just rules and power of, you know, every aspect of how you actually conduct your life and support your family organizes to try to get these stories out,

1:46:25 that were there were these protests that Like just like, boop, gone. Debanking and you know be financially invested in these people so they're not gonna come after you And a lot of that money was paid to politicians with no compliance at all with all the campaign they ended up not charging him on campaign finance fraud. And then look, there's no evidence for this, but the other theory is, yeah, whoever are

1:48:52 Right. What's really fascinating about him is that he was right and if they didn't come after him he would have gotten all that money to those people. That it was all the money was all being invested and he was going to give it all back and it was all this and that, you know, all these complicated Well, there's also amphetamines involved, which definitely tend to skew your judgment.

1:50:37 Yeah, like Reequip. Well, yeah. Yeah, exactly. Well, yeah Whoo, boy, what a wild fella. Does it say how it works? Oh, that's Sledgeline. I think it's Sledgeline. and then taken mushrooms and literally almost never came back. and amphetamines and who knows what. That's so crazy, what a wild boy. that if we were all more responsible in our lives, we'd all be more successful and society

1:54:34 Yes. They're crazy people. And apparently, it's working quite well. with you that makes you wanna pick up heroin? benefits using that. You know, I wonder with particularly with these Ozempics and Wegovi and all these different types of But if you've gotten to 500 pounds, you're probably, you're in a bad state and you could relatively easy to fix. Right. That's right. And there's by the way, there's a ton of R&D going into these drugs right now.

1:57:44 Of health for the country from here, you that the RFK is really in charge of health for the country from here. And we look at all these, just whatever, to your point, the horrible track that we've where it's like nutrition, behavioral exercise, get fixed. And I'm actually I've been very encouraged that like I think this listening to me talking about the benefits of it. I've talked to so many

1:59:40 Yes. would be great. By the way, it would be great for him and his family and society. And if they're not like. Oh, it's like that's like that's like that's like prison yard credibility. It's fantastic Do you want more vitality in your life? propelling you through this life. It'll give you more energy for creativity, more soon go your head and you you know

2:02:38 That's not right. No, that's not right. It's so dumb. I can't wait until they can figure out the plants really can think and feel and they're eating leaves, as the wind comes down and gets to the other acacia trees, the So back to the dose for a moment. Right. And the corn lobby, the sort of agriculture lobby food pyramid is upside down, right, for all those decades, where we're supposed to eat

2:05:01 Well, Casey Means was on here and she was explaining the very mechanism by which high fructose corn syrup encourages over consumption. without understanding the consequences. So that's the kind of thing where you look at it and you're They need to stop forcing the food companies to do this. they decided, well, let's buy all these food companies. you're saying, and why this stuff is in there in the first place.

2:07:15 so, and you just, you have this very perverse outcome where you have these government officials stop subsidizing? That's an example. for additional protections or prohibitions. do with the culture. It's actually upstream or downstream from politics, which is like, what is the cultural tone of the country? And it's not that the government plays, It's not the kind of society we're going to have.

2:09:40 Problem is, and maybe you're so many people that are ignorant as to what exactly is going to be able to send messages that a lot of people hear. Secretary of HHS, he has very broad, you know, I would say, a very On a lot of these fronts. Could you imagine if you're running an agency and you have to have a meeting with Vivek and Elon? Is there a meme like that?

2:11:30 he's a really good guy, but literally this guy had just been promoted from engineering What did you get done this week? And in the context of Silicon Valley companies, that was a guy just tweeted or posted or Zed what it's like to work for Elon at his AI And so think about what that meant. about how different it is for a company to be run that way. And even again, the Valley

2:13:41 for how it's going to get run and there's no reason why the government can't literally I think the left thinks they control the government. Like I think 50 years ago they would have And so, okay, so two data points. That is data point number one. Data point number these are people making money from the government. No, if there's less government bloat, then there's less tax dollars.

2:15:35 Most? one agency where there's, okay, here's another great thing. And they're unionized. is the employees come in on the last day of the month and the first day of the following month. Someplace nice, but they go live in the Ozarks or something where the cost of living is cheaper and their dynamos of activity and they're making the country better right fair enough

2:17:37 have VPNs to get into the corporate network. Oh, they're physical mouse wigglers now. And so he actually wrote himself on a weekend algorithm Wow. Just a pattern of movement of the mouse, that's it? So in corporate environments, it's very common that your company issued computer has some And so that's actually a reasonably common thing. amounts of money on this every year, the argument that what are you going to do if those people

2:19:52 Yeah. And then, by the way, there's multiple knock-on, Right. Because the money reallocates. And so there might be just as much demand in the That's just interest on the old debt. Well, so the total government spending is on the order of seven trillion And the total accumulated debt is 35 trillion. a pocket lapel pin calculator of the government debt.

2:21:49 And it's accurate. How much anxiety do you get standing around him looking at that? That's his So everybody who buys, anybody who ever borrows money in the real economy then therefore is But this fundamental discussion of it, like the argument, particularly from the left, so Democrat, Republican, it's what they call, it's everybody with the fancy jobs.

2:23:48 And all the elite degrees, by the way, forth, right? And so that's the Democratic Coalition that they explicitly program Everybody who goes to work 9 to 5 has a job, probably because that's where all those things are, Like a hundred years ago, it spoke for the working man. It's amazing to be in charge and control society and decide how everything works and decide who's good and who's bad and

2:26:08 New York Times only has two articles anymore. And so it's a very compelling, you feel great about yourself, right? It's just absolutely in this bubble and then you only ever talk to people who agree with you. Right. And so you just you're in this bubble. And then you only ever talk to people who agree with you. So from 2617 to 2020, I was just like trying to figure out what the hell was going on.

2:28:08 And so and they tried to kill crypto and they were they were on their way to trying to kill They want to control in the same way they can recognize the potential of it. They wanted to hit it off of the path. They want to control. They want to control in the same way they can. So they recognize the potential of it and they want to head it off of the path.

2:28:47 that do AI because you wanna be able to put them from being able to enter that cartel. It's that there's some disruptive change Those are the ghost stories One is you could try to invent the future like to propose basically a trade, which is we would like the government to put up a wall of such that the next startup comes along banks, right? The banks were too big and so there was this legislation called Dodd Frank which was regulatory reform for banking which was this problem called the too big to fail banks, right? The banks were too big. And so there was this legislation called Dodd-Frank, which was regulatory reform for

2:31:31 And periodically, they'll go under. And so the banking system is being centralized basically into 10 big banks. phone call, right? Literally, it was like cardiac arrest. Wow. Like, it's not, it's ruled out, by definition it's ruled out. in that industry as well. It has a CEO. Everything. You just threaten to take away their insurance. And there's no constitutional right to insurance.

2:34:19 of some of the big AI companies that want this to happen. cancel their political opponents, that's going to come right along with it. programmed it in a political direction. There's this guy David Rosato who's been doing these This is one of the threats from the government is, is the government basically going to force this has the potential to be 1,000 times worse.

2:36:25 It's going to be the control layer on does your house open when you come to the front door. Yes. 100%. Another Biden administration for sure. And then there was an open question Do people hide these thoughts that this administration would be bad for business? OK, I have some things to say. thoroughly weaponized. There's something called the CFTC, which is the other part of the crypto puzzle, commodities, futures.

2:39:09 Drones illegal in the US years ago. So like the FAA has been a big problem China there's no such restriction Which again sounds like a terrible security risk is a very bad idea because every Chinese drone is both a potential surveillance platform and a potential weapon. Oh Like this is just a grid in the sky. Look at this. They're flying up together. Yeah, they did one that was at night

2:41:11 Absolutely. Yeah. They weren't like this though, they didn't didn't not wasn't at that level. I mean that that's unbelievable enjoy the show while you can They're very, they're, I don't know what they'll do. that's not good. These are bad paths. century is going to be, let's say, a contest between the US and China, the same way that We have to come up with a centralized digital currency, which in my view is exactly the wrong thing. Yes

2:44:28 we have going for us, which is the Chinese system And they're all trying to get their money out, and they're all trying to get their families out. Because it's now too dangerous to run a tech company in China, and he said every single Chinese tech founder has either left China or wants to leave China. And they're all trying to get their money out, who can come in and override your decisions

2:45:22 It's political officers. See, I was not nearly as aware as I meetings I've ever been in, where they were taking us bother. is already finished. Oh my God. No. When you leave a meeting like that, what do you do? I supported Clinton in 96. Are you completely out in the cocktail circuit now? do I want to go to them. They're very well informed and they understand the repercussions

2:48:29 People that don't know what the fuck is going on? It was very different, but also they were much more, Everybody loved you, it was great, Democrats culminating in this administration And then technology was presumptively had bad effects a ton of money in Facebook stock. vicious attack. It was like a very very aggressive attack and the fundamental and correct thing to do.

2:51:21 envy, resentment. Yes. Nietzsche had this great term, they called it as a whole who are handing out the money, not the individual. much not on the same page as me on these things. She actually worked in the Clinton administration, They should basically, women should basically you've written a right wing manifesto. And I'm like, this book is a statement

2:53:21 And if a woman doesn't succeed in her career, is a victim. right is denial of oppression. Wow because imagine if a man wrote a book Just call it lean in, bro. What was her reaction to that? then the woke stuff started and then at that point you could no longer No, and you can win, the country will vote for you. That's not what happened. No. And you can win again. You can win twice. You win twice. And be like I've always said,

2:55:57 That's not what I'm talking about. He represents like what we're hoping for. She got a few lessons out of that, but not all of them. And you can choose to follow into the craziest version thought he was going to be a far lefty because he's gay, We have to get back to moderation. Well, the big Nietzschean shift was when Dick Cheney endorsed Kamala and everybody cheered.

2:58:42 Look Dick Cheney's on our side like what the fuck are you guys talking about? This is this is the best shift of it, right? That was a different era. being Abraham Lincoln and trying to get rid of slavery We're supporting war and then there was the big faction, right? There's the big free Palestine versus support Israel. 70s, 80s. And he's like, he basically is like, basically he had this thesis that like these

3:00:59 in the military right and is able to write is able to write is able to and at the universities. Yeah. That was. Yeah, that was. Yeah. be part of. turns out there's just a lot more people in the middle. And so I think, but by the way, including pushed into the ocean. You can't have them for mentally ill men that think that they can be able to just decide

3:04:25 Right. protected women from. So you have women who, you know, especially if you're you can't let psychos And if you don't allow that conversation to take place, a reasonable thing to say just 20 years ago. people that are Democrats, who say I feel better that Trump won. Yeah. Oh, I'm on, I'm on, I'm on X under P Marque.