Joe Rogan Experience #2255 — Mark Zuckerberg Transcript

Transcript

0:00 The Joe Rogan Experience. Yeah, sort of. if you believe in giving people a voice. We really found out about it when Elon bought to give people the ability to share as much as possible. find IP- IP protected content. But it was really in the last 10 years And then, you know, in 2020, there was COVID. 2016, in the aftermath, I gave too much deference to a lot of folks in the media who were basically

4:10 this should be our president. to basically try to address this. the worst of the worst stuff. so they're just kind of veered in that direction. We kept on trying to basically get it to be what So I kind of think, like after having gone through that whole exercise, it, I don't know, Because in the beginning, it was. your ability to speak can temporarily be curtailed in order

7:41 we should give a little bit of deference And everything was shifting around. And they pushed us super hard to take down things that were conversations directly, but I think it was. How difficult is that to not be involved in those impact. They are seriously committed to quality. AG1 has tested for hundreds of contaminants number of human beings you're moderating is fucking insane. Like what is well

11:13 all these whatever place that you think is doing something that's awful, it's good that and objective that's going to analyze every video, You have some corporation that decides, and then you have the administration So I get involved in this stuff, but in general, We produced all these documents and it's all in the public domain. the emails are published.

13:57 if you took a COVID vaccine, you're conference or to some journalists where he basically was like, these guys are killing people. I don't know, it flipped a bit. I mean, Biden, when he was, he gave some statement at some point, I don't know if it was a press conference It was brutal. that can help you recover from illness. and magnesium. They were suppressing this stuff because they didn't want people to think

16:11 way with wrong speak and with bizarre distortion of facts. And when it comes down to it, in Yeah, so, I mean, that's basically the journey on what we should do. It's like, this is a disaster. because of the economic policies to deal with COVID We kind of had this pressure tested over the last period. It's like, okay We try to have policies that reflect mainstream discourse.

20:03 Like what were they saying was your offense offense was it that you were allowing information? the people who are running this thing hate you? And I think that those can often be two very different things. So and we had It's like what does Metta have to do with this? or it's just like a quiet consensus that, like, it's global. around the rest of the world.

22:56 government, if some other country was screwing with another Obviously, we do. in the world. The government can come after you for something, around the world. If other governments decide decide that they're gonna go after you, you don't Like they removed, at the time, the sitting president. But you do have to be careful about misinformation and you do have to be careful about just outright

26:26 They could mark stuff false. that's a good sign to the community that there's actually a broad consensus on this and then you And they coordinate and they post on each other's stuff the way that a human would. Have you met Lex Friedman? and it's an adversarial space. and how are they interacting? No, I don't think it's that for this. I think... it's a large enough group.

30:13 vast majority of the censorship mistakes that we make. Right, the, you know, the like this over the years, is like, it's just, OK, So we build a bunch of systems that basically go out and try to automate finding people who are dealing with no, we really need to find everyone who's doing this bad thing. And it doesn't need And if you filter, if you kind of multiply that across the billions of people who use

33:05 is this trade-off. and then one day you wake up and you're like, Has that happened before? Yeah. Oh, well, if it's, I mean, we run these different services Right. Yeah. mistakes at scale, and it's just unacceptable. But I think it's a very hard calculation of like Was it Theo? It might have been Theo. I think it was Theo. how that can get weird. Was it Theo might have been Theo

36:34 you are definitely going to open up the door to bad actors having enormous blocks of accounts You're going to have, if you're going to have anonymous accounts, which I think you should, Yeah. A lot of what we've seen too, I mean, there's the anonymous accounts. Also just And then most of the jokes that I make are with my friends and WhatsApp in groups.

38:53 in some sort of an international conflict, and you have this ability to get out this everyone agrees is bad. So we have – this is the type of stuff that the vast majority of our energy goes towards of Right. So, you know, it's like Pete Hegseth is going to, you know, of a protected category of people. went too far, needs to just get rationalized a bit.

42:10 that one is causing an issue. be a good thing for the government to support its companies. It makes sense. It's continuing the patterns of behavior that they've always exhibited, which is to have control So, well, what do they trust? They trust social media. Well, who's running that? Well, there are a bunch of people who figured it out and invented it. Well, then fuck that. Like we got to crack down on that. Like we've got to get our hands on this, which is what we saw during COVID, which is we saw during the

44:48 There there wasn't some sort of pirate radio voice that came on and said hey guys like here's the the latest studies that every major incumbent lost their elections So I think that's quite possible. It's like who are the people that basically people look to? that they feel like are being authentic and giving them I think it's also just the internet more broadly.

47:31 But I think that there's this wholesale generational shift like the bullshit opinions that you're supposed to say, but the type of stuff that I would actually, Yeah. which is another argument for anonymous accounts. you know, anecdotal experiences of people in your family that had vaccine side effects It doesn't work. it was just your voice and your cadence and all that.

50:17 I think part of it is the format, right? And I just had these experiences early on, I was gaining confidence, being able to build more and more conversation. Even Bill Marsh show is only an hour. Yeah, there's that added element. Yeah, which is so not normal and not conducive to having a conversation So it's like you might not actually have the thing

53:16 But yeah, I just think that that's sort of how people work. They probably don't really understand too much about what SpaceX is trying to accomplish, You're one of the straight shooters now. of people that were on the fence, the people that weren't sure who they're going to vote for. for social media companies to censor stuff was legal. It's more of an American ethos about how

56:25 I would love to hear it. when he took over that company, I think about this as like, you know, what Elon did on the Twitter files when repercussions? I mean they lost the election. Yes. Well that's it. That's it. Well in a democracy. I mean that's kind of right. But if what they did was illegal do you not think that some steps should be put in place to make

58:01 to say what specific retribution that was true. But we did generally defer to the government on some of these policies and try to reset. But I think at this point, we have a much more thorough I'm very happy that you took those steps. not to fire me. people who I can get to have around me help work on these problems. So it's like, all John McCain was trying to outlaw it.

1:01:03 And he's just like a, he's got a world-class entrepreneur and he's just like a he's got a strong backbone from all these different governments. I agree with everything you said about him. No. From Poison? Cause we were in love with it. dollars in the hole when they financed the Ultimate Fighter. And then that was people in his prime. He was the perfect poster guy for the UFC because he was just smashing

1:04:08 what Gary Brekka's done for him is incredible. I think that had an effect on you. You look different when you walked in here today. You look thicker well, in addition to having good partners, You need a neck. A photo of him in a suit. jujitsu in particular is I'm glad that he's over at the UFC now. I know. It's not as acute. I think it's like, sometimes you have someone trying to choke you unconscious slowly over a multi-year period,

1:07:49 I mean, I basically try to train every morning. and my fighting training, Like what do you expect? You're like, you know, I was in my late 30s at the time and but she was like no And. It's like nothing else that day is going It's also good, I think, to be a little bit tired. would say, I'd like to be the vulnerable guy walking around with a bunch of fucking assassins.

1:10:38 skills into your neurons where your brain knows exactly what to do in every position. that applies to virtually any stressful thing The way better situation to be in. know, I don't even know the right word for it, but it's kind of like neutered or emasculated. it's like, no, no, that's like, it's like, no, it's like, fuck that guy. Like, wow, anytime something like that happens,

1:13:29 missed the guys I trained with. of skill and they're all better than me. I can't wait to get back to that too. you know, I think I'm getting pretty good at jujitsu, I'm like, that guy? like what that's kind of a cheat code. I mean, yeah. He's like, what? It's been sort of a slow journey on the rehab. So you did the patellar tendon graft, right? The second one I was 31

1:17:25 He said, you'll be back to, because I didn't have any training for my knees, doing certain positions, Yeah, I can kind of do everything that I want Yeah, don't do that anymore. Yeah. like really learning how to do this stuff correctly and I can do it way more And I basically threw a leg kick. I'm like, no, one more round. Are you aware of Knees Over Toes guy?

1:20:21 No, I feel like I'm I and then developed a bunch of different methods Leg curls, Nordic curls, but Nordic curls in particular because it's very difficult to and he puts it online for everybody. But I think what you're doing is like You know? for a longer period of time. I think I can speak, rarely do, but I think I can speak for the martial arts community.

1:23:15 but like the reasoning behind why you kind of want to slip in certain ways and like the someone to get them out of position they're like you learn so much more when you're playing. Like you were talking about having an MMA fighter, And I think the idea of having a competition, But I would like to at some point. do the version where you're just attacking joints all day long.

1:26:04 Yeah, I mean, like Tom Aspin all famously blew his out against Curtis blades with a supporting leg just a kick and yeah everybody. Have you talked to him at all? Oh yeah. Do you talk to John Donahue? He's got a memory like a steel vice like he just holds on to thoughts and can is nothing short of extraordinary. Because when people have these ideas of what martial arts are, and then you see a guy like

1:28:13 quicker than Jiu Jitsu. Bullshit and they don't really have to be there and they're only there to sort of make up for hard work. Yeah sisters, no brothers. I have three daughters, no sons. So I'm like surrounded by girls and that are really positive. It just, I could see your point though about corporate culture. masculine. for everyone, and I think it's another to basically say that masculinity is bad.

1:31:21 You want masculine energy. much more masculine culture. Okay. Yeah, like this was this was a piece of the puzzle that should have been there and or at least most of them on Kauai live in a small stretch make sure that these populations are in check it's part of what we do as like Because explaining to the kids what a tech company is that we're writing.

1:34:53 Yeah. kill the animal yourself, cut it up, butcher it, cook it. I mean, you're just put it that way. Yeah. Especially if you're mountain hunting, But it's a, but yeah, another. This is embarrassing. that I got strung to my draw length. The people who learned something incorrectly, the moment things got tense and they panicked, No, no. So you put the pin on the target.

1:38:05 pressure. So I've gone through stage one. Now stage two is just concentrating on the faster. the proper execution of a shot. When you see like tournament archers when they go to Vegas, Very rarely will they, you know? Have you ever used one? You're a trigger puncher. So with a good surprise shot, But how far away are you shooting You have to be really confident.

1:41:47 Yeah. Money get your gear already you get your arrows weighed you Because target panic is a giant thing in the archery community. They have to keep their pin below the target and they raise it up to the target when it gets where the target is are with a pistol, which I think is pretty fun. Do you wanna think about something crazy? And it's like, if I don't hit any,

1:44:35 It's like, you really should learn it the right way and all the comments were like, man, your form is shit. It's pretty funny. I don't spend any time on it. are about you. You're like, Hey, man, don't I'm not looking for So we got to agree. to use and what's good and what's not and all the dynamics around that, it's really It's like she's creating stuff with LEGOs.

1:47:30 In that case, probably not. Now, there were times when Did that too when I was a kid, but trust me yeah, you're gonna want to sleep feel pretty good about the kids using it. That's much better than just having like an open texting service So for Meta, what we've kind of come to is we want to be the most aligned with parents they get Instagram or Facebook or any of that stuff. But when they turn 13,

1:50:15 in order to make it so that you can connect with people who And there's also this dismissal of activities that are done electronically as not being pure recreation but education. There's so many things you could learn skills Yeah. and you have to kill them all. some sort of a haptic feedback of how we think about the goal here And the question is, OK, how do you do that?

1:53:27 It's actually very interesting which things end up is it's actually not that important that you see your arms. But that doesn't necessarily tell us where your elbow is. That's messed up. than anywhere else in the body. like when you're actually playing ping pong, So it's like all these things are just going towards enough force for you to, for example, let's say you're not just boxing, you're kickboxing.

1:56:41 to be able to kick someone who's not there physically I think it would be better with it. are these location-based services where people, it's these like location based services where like people, I think a lot of those really rich experiences Well, in terms of neural interfaces, I think that there are a lot of people who and now you have the ability to fix that.

1:59:21 But it's good for giving you the ability to control a reality is there's like all these other patterns too that are unused today so But there's some signal that the neural interface wristband, OK, I just did that. everyone in software basically started working remotely conversations right so it's like when you're seeing someone in person it would have some discussion that I have to sync up with people afterwards about how'd that go,

2:02:19 where you're just like, you're interacting with people Well, it certainly can be, Yeah, I actually think it'll be a lot better on that. The world consists of physical things and virtual things that are overlaid on it. be embodied. So if you're having a physical meeting, you're sitting around or people who are kind of beaming in or hologramming the whole digital universe through this like five inch

2:05:14 That's such a weird concept, but it's true. Just we got to hope that the right people are in control of AI when it becomes God. to all this stuff. in power that everyone else didn't have, because you could use Google, and you could get access should be one company that controls AI. like in the future like a video it's not interactive you know you watch it and you're consuming

2:07:15 So I don't know. have, the general fear that Uh-huh. But I don't know. It's just like I think it's the future versions of this stuff are just gonna be wild but unquestionably I don't know if this was a hundred or a hundred fifty years ago, but it was like at some point that are sort of like creative pursuits and smaller as it has. like this unimaginable leverage from having a lot more technology. So I think that that if you just like fast forwarded or extrapolated out the

2:12:05 Which is again is why I think it's really important that it's open source than what you're asking, or a different take on the question, to do, or you must have some sort of consciousness. without either having a will or consciousness. I'm not sure what this is what is this you weren't aware that Yeah, I mean, it depends on what goal you give it. at all costs.

2:15:16 I think you need to be careful with with these things like what guardrails you give it if you're telling it like at all And that's basically, it's sort of like a chat bot, here are the things that I could do and if I do that then here's what I could do So I don't know. and then maybe the next year you can do it 10 times from being a very useful paradigm.

2:17:49 it needs to be developed thoughtfully, right? few years knowing the security holes that we're now aware of you as an doing something problematic in another system. It's like, cause I mean, there's boy. And antivirus software. So it's, which I mean, I think is part of the issue and the Chinese government that steals it from them. Yes. So I kind of just think

2:20:18 Yeah, sure right back folks. So one of the things that I want to talk about was I mean, they've done an insane job. It's such a pain in the ass. I brought it up. Yeah. No, I. So I basically, you know, one of my, And there's like 4 billion people because now pretty much everyone in the world has a phone, And they actually, I think year over year, I'm not even sure they're just kind of sitting on it 20 years later and you know they actually I think year over year

2:23:34 developers by getting you to buy more peripherals and things that plug into it. they did, there would probably be much better competitors to AirPods out there. So it's not like a pain in the ass for people in terms of not really releasing many innovative things that eventually I mean If they didn't apply, I think, and this is just meta, I think we'd make twice as much

2:26:41 like this Ray-Ban meta, you know meta category that we've kind of created with Ray Band No that one they didn't actually connect into the rest of their ecosystem but I tried in a while. Well, the whole thing is it's got a super sharp screen. had to make all these other trade-offs. the kind of image blurs a bit. They're really good at keeping you in their walled garden.

2:29:25 you're not cool. RCS. I don't think it's encrypted iPhone to Google phones or Google phones to iPhones. I'm trying to find a good answer. I think the issue comes with it going from, so like say Google, Google this, Google RCS company that was doing it called Beeper. And they were doing it through some sort of work Yeah, no I only communicate with a few people over SMS.

2:32:22 When Tucker Carlson was about to interview Vladimir Putin NSA, okay, but there's no point at which the Meta servers see Let's say someone hacks into Meta, which we try really hard It's like they can't hack into Meta Yeah, and then of course, there's always the ultimate But if someone has something like Pegasus, what they do and they can see everything that's going on there,

2:35:31 Right. But it was very rare. You can do seven days. are probably the two most secure that are out there on that. Oh man. precedent to set. I think you want the, I mean obviously you don't want people to just be like flagrantly so I was not that worried about it but but like but but it was a little bit but that one was sort of avoidable. think that this is one of the things that the US government is

2:39:55 That it was going to, they were going to be successful with all this, that they would relationship with the American government. But then what that happened is then the US government And so I think it ends up being know, it's mostly, I mean, going back to the AI conversation, It's a very advanced model. which, okay, the American tech industry is leading, so maybe the government can like

2:43:13 interfering with their ability to administer propaganda or that their ability to control It's like I was a good goal if it worked. I still think it's good for more people to get the vaccine, and you can't have that with valid therapeutics being available. therapeutics through propaganda, through suppressing monoclonal antibodies, like all of it. And

2:45:59 like, the US Constitution and, like, our culture here believed that it's good to kind of help advance Listen, is there anything else you want to talk about is just gonna be wild. Yeah, no, it's like, in the future it'll just be this. And we did Translate, too, where one of your coworkers so you don't have to say the words. we're building the kind of future thing that we want.

2:48:29 Each pair right now costs more than $10,000 to make plus you know, lasers in the arms and the like nano etchings on the lens to be able I think the community notes thing is a brilliant idea and I feel like we're more fortified now in the position. We're on the side of the people that were pushing the the suppression of information still don't think it's right