Joe Rogan Experience #2275 — Magnus Carlsen Transcript

Transcript

0:00 The Joe Rogan Experience. I forgot to bring in the coffee. And I'm always wondering, like, how much time is involved? like sports stats and I had my little flag book with all the countries in the world, their flags hobby and eventually work as well since. And she liked chess, but she stopped for a while Grandmaster at 12, was it? going to become a grandmaster soon. I think he's only 10, so they're really, really

3:53 with that young man who you believe It started taking the rounds and read it and then Elon saw it became, it started taking the rounds in Reddit and then Elon saw it, tweeted about player but does have a history of some shenanigans, correct? But he is a very good player. Hearing vibrations The thing is also there's a Netflix documentary Again, I'm not ruling out the factor that chess players are becoming more and more paranoid

8:27 everybody gets a bit jittery. very easily and it was yeah it didn't didn't smell good to me. It still doesn't, but, you know, to some extent, Always. Like, so, but he would have to have a partner. So I think, well, I'm not an expert in all of that, people are like wandering in and out of the playing hall. who don't know what we're talking about, No, it would be like, it would buzz, right?

13:07 That's crazy. It's not taking the term but seriously at all Is such a fascinating game because it's impossible to play if you're dumb patterns, right? so for a guy like you that excels above all what is the difference in your Yeah, exactly. I think I got humbled one time by this Russian grandmaster who asked, somebody else asked me like if a certain account and a certain website was me.

17:07 Yeah, I think it's playing strength, playing style, because I tried to switch up my openings I mean, I don't know, like people's day to day activities. So you guys don't talk about it? But I would still spend a lot of time reading books, playing the things that I still do, And I think a lot of very good chess players do that, but like casual chess players

19:47 I think so. I think this is definitely the way that works for me, maybe for others. For me, it's just the way that it works and I do process it even though I don't necessarily study, I don't deliberately practice all the time, I still process the information. that have to do with genetics, training, I think it has to be a variety of factors. I think there's no doubt that I'm incredibly

22:25 had access to like a little training group of of other ambitious kids after When you say your father started playing late, how old was he? Well, when you say take it seriously, wonder if some information or some proclivity for the game gets transferred. I have an alternate theory for that. playing it, I would listen to him talk about it on the radio and about how he started hiring

26:43 that reward. So the good thing about that controversy with cheating was that I think it elevated the profile of chess. Can you explain to people what the Netflix is? than it used to be. I fall asleep. Oh, that's, yeah, that's total opposite. You know I like to play a game of chess on my phone or my iPad Take a listen. Robert De Niro is absolutely legendary

30:59 Yeah, especially if I'm playing somebody who is a little bit of a rival. It's like, yeah, no, that's especially if I'm playing somebody whom I'm And then there was a young kid who was a grandmaster who was like I think I've played 12, but the world record is something like 50. Oh, so this is another one actually this is a blindfold timed Exactly. But ever since that, it feels like I've done it.

34:58 number one it's that position right yeah and so on. And are you... What are you seeing in your mind when you're envisioning the table? When you're looking at the board? Are you... you've completely memorized each position of 12 different boards. that I cannot remember if it moved one square or not. their move would pop up on on the screen and I've had

37:34 for the very top players it's not that hard but obviously for non like serious No, I didn't see that. Yeah. See if you find it Jamie. It's crazy. It just goes I think the world record is only like three seconds or something like it's it's something absolutely Brrrr, whee. But do you play other games as well? Yeah, yeah, I have, but it's still- I was doing some sports and I was doing a lot of chess.

41:13 video games are a huge waste of time and if you do it you're not going to get anywhere in life. I would feel like if there was a factor in medical school and they said well if you do not But it just it seems like a frivolous pursuit whereas chess is like a noble and very For me specifically it was probably a Just cold turkey, never again, leave it alone.

44:15 So, and I got myself a PlayStation, love it but I don't have that time the time during the day. Well I can tell you Even if you fake being happy so you can keep doing it but you have to golf to understand Like, it's like an upper, it gives you a massive burst of energy. So like the, what am I thinking of? Whether it's the sun, the grass, the this, the that,

47:25 game, right? Because it's hand-eye coordination, calculation, you know, managing the the lay of the land, the way the rolls of the hills are, and all those to play golf too. I wouldn't want that. controller and they're like oh yeah I could fucking drop some bombs on people Yeah, there's press X on the control. Yeah They'd probably get good at video games.

50:30 the game that's respected. Whether that's deserved, I don't know, but there's just something about the fact that but they might not have the same set of openings, right? some people who don't like it but for the professionals it's a chance but you can watch so many great games that this is how to play at a very early age. at your own thing and then some things together on the board and

55:24 generally. Like he basically became one of the best players in the world But he has made all his studies about classical chess. to excel at things and that you really only know is reading books, that guy's gonna pass everybody. especially with little time. all the way through. What's the traditional time limit? Did you ever, before you were known, There I played against a guy who played like a very strange opening as well, like he put

1:00:36 that was actually like kind of effective if you don't know what you're doing against it. So that a lot better than him, he played a certain opening as white. I was like, I'm one of the best players in the world, That's really interesting. And I think all of them just never played anything At a certain time like you might think that It makes me harder to prepare against as well.

1:04:29 that I can go to, but only like two or three Roll the dice. agonizing over what opening you're going to play. method of like when you eat vitamins you take, is there certain things that you do to optimize So that's something that I learned quite quickly that I shouldn't do. She's completely different. I mean, it's extraordinary if you think about you know theanine there's a

1:08:30 So if you ever find yourself sleep deprived I could have used that, What does it say here Jane cognitive function study suggests that creatine supplementation may improve cognitive function including memory attention and reasoning I take creatine gummies every day. But they're great. Eat cheeseburgers and fuck around Yeah And honestly, chess is one of the worst things

1:11:23 Do you have a specific thing you do when you're feeling not on top of your game? Do you have a specific thing you do when you're feeling not don't think about these things. Just in the moment. But I remember I was just so focused and so calm. games at that level with that level of preparation. bit lower that have gone down a little bit the older I've gotten because I sort of accept that I don't have, my brain is not as fast

1:14:50 expectations is that a recognition of the fact that being hard on yourself works with people on mindsets to try to capture what is happening when you are will yourself back into that thing. But then there's another school of thought that says no it just has to happen organically and that you just have you that somebody's gonna mess something up in my head.

1:17:06 And it's sort of the way it is. How did I sleep did I avoid toxic people around me? Did I stay offline? You want it to be something exciting? been there for for 80 years and it's for three weeks every every January so for It's just keeping it as simple as possible, honestly. they will spend three, four hours preparing on a game But it's still not as good, of course.

1:21:14 No, no, no. you've done it since you were a child, you're still obsessing and loving it. time at our comedy club, we're all in the green room, we're like, we are so lucky that I don't feel like it takes away energy. It just gives me joy and energy when I do that. That perspective is very important for people to recognize. When someone sees you play chess at the highest level

1:24:47 like a difficult time to watch my games is something that they love, that they do, I think my favorite probably player of all time That I know that I could never replicate it. It's just not the way that I I play and Anand, who was the world champion before me. Then I went to his house and as soon as that training camp started, something just switched

1:28:14 how good he actually was, yeah. at that point, like, for a week. And that made me just, yeah, it just made me realize that I have a lot to learn and Because you're so confident. Because if you're realistic realistic you're just never going What kind of guy like Garret Kasparov tell you that makes you know that you know even less? pawn breaks for both sides and both kings are under attack, then it's sort of more dynamic and tactical, or it could be more about

1:32:40 The main benefit that I have from my chess coach is opening work. And so it's essentially, he's obviously very good at chess Yeah, they are. Yeah, so the thing about I know, I Additionally people watching chess games, like one problem is that you cannot easily tell. consume sports, they're mostly interested about who is going to very much settled of course.

1:37:10 So see if you're finding is like kind of bluffing moves or I do not know because I don't understand go by humans and instructed by humans. because it was not based on brute force in the way that traditional engines would. Because it, I don't know, it doesn't have, it just thinks about chess differently than it's search, I really don't know. Because if it's a piece that's anyway going to be captured, just to give your opponent like

1:41:11 Well, I have another alternative that seems equivalent, more or less. And then I think- phone yeah and I was just shocking no, I have no chance against my phone. because I played some kind of anti-computer chess They were playing classical chess and he started with a night more. But yeah, for me, I rarely play against engines at all because they just make me feel so stupid and useless.

1:44:58 12 draws actually and then I won in a tiebreak these neural networks or knew how to use them and which players didn't. less safe then. than others. But I would imagine that playing something that makes you feel stupid would at the very They're less dogmatic, more concrete in their thinking, but then I know that there When you lose, it's because you're worse

1:48:59 Could you help explain to me what are the factors? Like they may make slight positional mistakes, but honestly most of the time that I think What is the difference between the approach that the neural network takes versus a traditional engine? like it calculates based on that. A neural network just you teach you just for hundreds of years had to be rechecked by coaches.

1:52:13 And that ultimately just leads to different results, really. with just a regular laptop that's connected to a cloud. So we actually did this back in the day. We actually started Maybe with AI, you can get there, You play you when you were 20. By by the engines hmm And I definitely have more knowledge now than I've ever had. Apart from that, I think I could do, like, my average level would probably be a little

1:58:35 Well you're saying you were in the best shape of your life, do you mean physically or do It's not like you're an old man. No, no, no. that there's a certain age where it just drops off? drop-off is not nearly as steep as it would be in physical sports like Yeah, that's a good thing. I feel like I generally do the right things when I'm at tournaments, but then in between,

2:01:49 Um, I don't have concrete goals of what I wanted what I wanted to do of these things but now I think there are a lot of other players who take Involved and analyzed and there's geniuses wearing suits and glasses and things you're kind of known as a laid-back But also I just I'm terrible at planning. And something usually goes wrong or often enough buffer but I was like eh that was probably going to be fine. Suddenly there's an accident and

2:05:44 but as I said like I don't do those things to intimidate my opponents I'm not going to lose on time automatically. I just had to play a little bit faster. But it was okay. about the skiing delay or anything. And then just half an hour out of the city, I need to get out of here. Is there anything like that in chess yeah that specific thing has has happened for sure. I'm not sure if it's been

2:08:15 and yet still play in the best tournaments. Cheating over the board and over online is very different. and there are monetary incentives to cheat, Or maybe, imagine I'm playing a tournament. But they're very, like if you're not cheating in a dumb way, So it's a glass proof box. We have had that in tournament like tournaments that you have to have white noise and some kind of sound from like Spotify or

2:12:45 but I've definitely played some of my best BlizzChest, That's a good stuff. That's a good song but they're like doing like American, Yeah, my verse is like right at the end song about it and so they had a bunch of people like sending their verses Don't make me pull out the gun. It wasn't me. I'm like, what are you listening to? And she was like, yeah, of course.

2:17:05 Jamie do you know? Didn't say when it's coming out. Well we will put it up on the