Scott Payne

Date: 2025-03-27 | Duration: 2h 52m

Episode Overview

An FBI undercover agent who spent 25 years infiltrating the Ku Klux Klan, Nazi organizations, and biker gangs joins Joe for one of the most extraordinary spy stories ever told on JRE. To maintain cover across three of the most dangerous domestic extremist organizations in America, this agent adopted multiple personas — including an accountant, a lawyer, and at one point an employee of Disney — over a career that defied all normal rules of undercover work. Joe is riveted: how do you build a criminal case while living deep inside a movement that would kill you on sight if they knew the truth? The agent describes the fear that never fully goes away, the years spent earning trust at the cost of everything else, and what it looks like from inside a hate group when the FBI is closing in. They've also done consulting on film sets in Tennessee and made a cameo in a movie — one kill in the movie world, they note.

About Scott Payne

Scott Payne is a retired FBI Special Agent with an impressive 28-year career dedicated to tackling some of the most challenging criminal enterprises in the United States, including drug trafficking, human trafficking, and domestic terrorism. As the co-author of "Code Name: Pale Horse: How I Went Undercover to Expose America’s Nazis," he sheds light on his harrowing experiences infiltrating extremist groups, revealing the complexities of hate and its dangers. His work has not only garnered attention through the gripping podcast "White Hot Hate: Agent Pale Horse," created with journalist Michelle Shephard, but has also sparked vital conversations about extremism and the law enforcement strategies used to combat it. With a wealth of firsthand knowledge, Payne's insights into the dark corners of criminal organizations make him a compelling voice in the ongoing dialogue about security and justice in America.

Key Moments

– 25 years undercover in the KKK, Nazi organizations, and biker gangs
– Multiple false identities — accountant, lawyer, Disney employee
– Building criminal cases while living inside extremist organizations
– The fear that never goes away in long-term undercover work
– What hate groups look like from the inside as the FBI closes in
– Consulting on film sets and getting a movie cameo
0:00:00 – 25 years undercover in the Klan, Nazi groups, and biker gangs
0:21:44 – The covers — accountant, lawyer, Disney employee
0:45:02 – Building the relationship inside the organization — months of trust
1:08:20 – Scared to death — they pull close enough, they hear everything
1:31:42 – Preamble recording — what it sounds like when the case is on
2:46:25 – Consulting on Tennessee film sets — one kill in the movie world

Transcript Excerpt

Starting point is 00:00:00 The Joe Rogan Experience. Trained by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day. You had a crazy fucking life, man. Like a really crazy life. So to get everybody up to speed right from the beginning, you spent 25 years undercover, working for the FBI in the Klan, Nazi organizations, and biker gangs. And then some, yes sir. Starting point is 00:00:31 What a crazy, crazy life that is. First of all, how did you first get started doing that? Good question. I grew up in South Carolina, played ball, all that stuff. I was always kind of a, I mean if you look back, not trying to be cocky, whatever, because that's not it. You've had plenty of people on this show that are complete badasses. But I was kind of a bully of bullies. I didn't, I always looked out, I liked the underdog. I bounced in college. So I was already learning that gift of gab and Starting point is 00:01:06 fight techniques and stuff like that. And then I became a cop because when I was in college, I took a course, I'm taking electives. I went to college so I'd have four more years to figure out what I was gonna do. Yeah. Because I didn't know what I was doing. Except partying. I did three years. I was good at partying. But I had an elective that was criminal justice and man, I really liked it. Psychology was always a strong thing for me. But it took a backseat and I ended up coming out with a major in criminal justice and a minor in psychology. But during those criminal justice courses, I was like, at first, for a fleeting moment, Starting point is 00:01:46 I said, I'm going to be an attorney. Yeah, I'll be an attorney. And then I realized I'd be a terrible attorney. I said, because if I was the defense attorney and they said they did it, I would probably just walk up and go, they did it, right? That's not going to get me any clients. And if I was the prosecutor, I pictured me being like Sam Kenison grabbing them and going, say it, say it. You did it. Starting point is 00:02:05 So I...

Read the full transcript

More Episodes

Frequently asked about this episode

Who was the guest on Joe Rogan Experience #2295?

Scott Payne was the guest on JRE #2295. This page includes the episode overview, topics discussed, and related resources.

What topics were discussed on JRE #2295?

On Joe Rogan Experience #2295 with Scott Payne, topics include 25 years undercover in the KKK, Nazi organizations, and, Multiple false identities — accountant, lawyer, Disney, Building criminal cases while living inside extremist, and The fear that never goes away in long-term undercover work.

Where can I read the transcript for JRE #2295?

The full searchable transcript for Joe Rogan Experience #2295 with Scott Payne is on the dedicated transcript page for this episode, with timestamps and in-page search.