Joe Rogan Experience #365 — Kelly Starrett, Glen Cordoza Transcript

Transcript

0:00 The Joe Rogan Experience. Kelly, how are you, sir? I started looking into your book, and as I was telling you before the podcast, And I was like, well, that's good. Why are you in pain? No one ever gave you the software for your beautiful hardware. It's difficult. It's not that easy. Well, who says it? The software for your beautiful hardware. That goes with the mind as well. Just managing being a human. It's difficult.

1:43 So meaning that you can't just get on a treadmill and be a healthy person with no pain. Yes or no. Can you squat down with your feet together like you're in Thailand having is being a skilled human. Can you do everything that a human being needs to be able to do? Yes or no. So the thing is that you should be very, very skilled in your thinking, very, very skilled

2:35 He's probably talking about torque and having your feet straight. Is that what you're saying, like that kind of thing? language is the modern language of strength and conditioning. you in a good position or a bad position? My whole life is slouching. And I'm telling you, there's been a bunch of different things that I've done lately that have mitigated my back pain.

4:43 Well, let's look at it. comma we use pain as a lagging indicator I wait till I have pain swelling numbness and tingling That's not – this is the problem. So, but the problem with stretching, we'll talk about that. So, let's take your neck, for example, right? load moment on your neck extrapolate it out times four so in one line is that your nervous system

7:05 Is this like fairly recent information? All those CrossFit fuckers and their acronyms. Fill in the blank. Sorry. Look at the people you've brought on, right? well it turns out that that that shoulder position is the same position you should have your shoulder You know what I mean? That's right. So the issue is suddenly we can tie these fields together, and because we have the way to share the information, and then we also are – maybe you've noticed we're in the center of a human epoch, of a certain renaissance.

9:58 Like the center of responsibility has definitely shifted back to us. And he waves about it. I mean, everyone's got pull-upsups and they're working hard and doing Tabata I'm not injured now. I feel great and I'm the best in the world. So why should I give a care? Position is a skill. because people are getting blown up running poorly with these new shoes,

12:24 Your feet are weak. What's happening is we've got to basically say, you know, if position is a skill, do you possess the motor control? You should, A, know that you probably take 10 minutes a day to work through your crap. What about A-Rod or Lady Gaga tears her hip? Powerful Lady Gaga. $30 million if, $30 million is how much she had to refund. Damn, that bitch is powerful. Powerful Lady Gaga.

13:58 Well, it's a human right to know how to move. There's a natural intelligence. Taekwondo, there was always these kids that would just Okay. And then all of a sudden you have this language onto which you can sort of layer athleticism. Is that because of more competition? There's something sketchy going on. And that's why you're like, hey, dude, you're my training partner. Something's wrong with you. Go get checked out.

16:54 That's it. You know, like give me a fighter because the expression of being able to hold these shapes and fight and wrestle under huge metabolic demand and cardiorespiratory demand is what makes fighting really good. And people have really done a good job of taking the conditioning off the table now. One-to-one. Okay. It's called a pathognomonic tell for ACL injury.

19:07 No kid, every child is born with flat feet, but no kid actually has flat feet. someone or hit someone you've lost a little force there. It's a little force And suddenly you've practiced this foot turned out position. So I can also look at your hip function. Practice, practice, practice. Just cutting a big, wide path. I don't think they're thinking like that, man.

21:24 Because it turns out you need training and coaching. And this is why you have training partners. And he's like, hey, what do we do? I'm like, well, have you asked your daughter not to walk like a duck? Because it turns out you need training and coaching. No, well, here's the deal. And this is the revolution we're in right now. Look, Daniel Coyle wrote this great book called The Talent Code.

22:48 You've heard all of this before. going to find out what your conditioning level is. We're going to find out what your skill is. We're His foot was a little stiff in the ankle and his knee used to wobble. bit? Now your Achilles is off axis, right? Pulls laterally. This is the mechanism for the Achilles This information has just been like kind of kept in this dark closet.

25:11 Well, that's the first thing. make the invisible visible how do I take a guy like that I is how do I make the invisible visible? You go to the Olympics, and you just watch the Olympics, and you're like, that guy could go faster. Am I going to mess with them? the field more effectively. So what you're saying essentially for the layman is when you're doing

27:18 Okay. as a volleyball player we'd see the same thing you need to be in that globally flexed and globally have a stable position and that position is external rotation it's trying to How do we know? what you're doing if you're putting your arms over your head and snatching you probably are But dudes do it for your head. It never works. I don't know if you've been there.

30:16 shoulder position is in any sport, in any platform, because it's the same shoulder. Are you organized? He got dumped in a bad shape. kettlebells over your head? Yes or no. That's full range of motion, right? But you need to be able to I'm doing push-ups, all the things we do. So you strengthen it as much as you can. That's pretty elemental. So can you do that?

33:09 So what ends up happening is that I start fighting and organizing and joining forces. adaptation for the stimulus for adaptation to get become a better human being to be a more effective athlete To take her on a date, they have to pick up a 200-pound rock? All right? it's got a good point we have to we have to use a little external load to teach people shapes.

35:10 It's because we're putting kids in bad positions. injuries so we're saying because they move poorly at load or they just move they were they do fast It's true. Now, let's just take the animal of the human as like an evolutionary machine. You can suck up bad diets for decades and then it blows up in your face, right? And they can because they're – look at their little bodies.

37:25 I go after your nervous system, right? Like Anderson Silva is the master. Maybe he's conscious of it. But how to teach kids the skills of being a human. Here's the language. You're totally allowed to fail. That's funny. You can take the scratch and keep going, right? with people using his face as a punching bag, right? Until he was talking and he looked down

40:11 And this is why everyone who knows who's ever So that's one of the problems. So we can't use that pain as a signal that you're in a bad position because you'll always override that every single time. Those fucking hurt, man. You feel those. You know, Glenn is the. he feels like he gets stressed out if he can't just kick you in the head spontaneously it feels

42:29 Squatting down? It's like wearing an exoskeleton. They turn the foot out, collapse the ankle, becomes stable. Wow. And it's because they don't have full control of their body. They're going to wear out their hip. because I'm designed for internal rotation on my shoulder, awkward place. Like the way your, your body's rotated, the correct, correct defensive position,

45:18 position. What I'm trying to get at is that there's Hands are up protecting the face, right? So in being smooth with the movement, you develop more power because it's faster and it torques in So why is it that you're grabbing a gi or shirt you come Two hands. Right. When you were talking about people with awkward movement, So he ends up teaching the fundamentals of movement, which look a lot like can you squat, yes or no, right?

48:13 But in the Olympics, when you're putting your arm over your head, you stop because your triceps get weak and you drop down underneath the bar. And they definitely don't have the motor control to express that. And kids who figure that out, And the key is that you're seeing your shoulders, this very complex system. I do it all the time. Right. You need to know the operation, and the operation is brutally simple.

50:52 Those motherfuckers. They figured out this front rack position is the stable position, right? People are showing that out. You know, you talk to the average person who takes care of their body and they're like, They're just going over the technique. All they do is out there and press, right? You betcha. saying is that people who are not fit and not not well-rounded in their athleticism are successful if they're fighters,

54:09 your feet into the ground. clear a room they're taught to have feet straight because they need to sweep from the last thing I'm thinking about or should be thinking about is my foot position. That happens because my body can twist and contort. So let's stay in good positions if you can. Like the ceiling. There we go. So if you can create a library of human movement.

57:20 You're designed to be able to create torque and you on your little laptop all day long Right? I'm in so much pain right now. You sleep in a weird position. And they kill a nerve, and they actually end up with long thoracic nerve damage. Not only for the vomit, so they don't numb their hands. I'm trying to lay down as much as possible nowadays. I just assumed it was a 30-year-old.

59:39 My apologies. And I'm talking about your trunk. the third thing is that we create we screw the feet into the ground right this torsion of kind Screwing the light bulb in. Look at the way he runs, son. artist. He's very good at Aikido. Yeah. We taught him how to run. Let's back that up. Lyoto Machida legitimately takes advice from that guy. Ball of the foot.

1:02:13 He's hitting heel first, man. That guy is flat-footed when he's landing. That's okay. I'm talking shit. What's all that about? Unstable. Unstable. So unstable. And that's what he's his hands. His arms are hands. The arms are arms. That's less efficient. What's going on there? What's all that about? So even when he runs, he's got that sort of whipping motion going on with his arms.

1:03:13 chips, man? Chips. Like, you have how much force is he giving away all that so if my hands coming across I got So, rewinding, you were talking about squeezing the You wouldn't have one running pattern that you would do slow and a completely different moving pattern that you would do when you sprint. Right. So when you start to wear a hole in your kneecap because you've been heel striking,

1:05:17 because of a shoe design? That's right. Correct. That's a hundred percent right. And what happens is they've started sitting long enough. So we make this joke about Chinese foot binding, right? And suddenly you start to figure out, oh, I can walk with my feet turned out a little bit. this crappy position my my upper back is rounded. Right. takes me, it's going to take me two days. If it's just a stupid spinal fault, a little

1:08:31 you trash that nervous system your body prioritizes it in a big way. In So that's saying essentially that really brilliant people who don't take care of their body are brilliant, jiu-jitsu class the the idea here is that those aren't disparate separate What I'm saying is that the amount of time that it takes to get awesome at that, the The problem is we're like, oh, this is my training.

1:10:51 Where are you going to put your eggs in the basket? because you've just did that on the ring all you have to do is fight a bunch of people once and you understand how conditioned you My, I have a six-year-old daughter we call Bear. She is the most legit human being I've ever met. She is an Olympic champion. Or someone grabbed you because you do these things.

1:13:16 Would you say what would be most important? i'm thinking getting at is should you be exhausted while you're learning the physical movements no There's also skill to learning how to train when you're exhausted. But we can go – I can go right now at 40 percent, full clip, and then in 30 seconds, I'll be back. I agree 100%. Yeah, it's a weird thing, right?

1:15:45 We start saying Sally. That guy's a cock. That dynamic between trainer and athlete, between coach and athlete. Mental state is the same. It's not even remotely near as dangerous. It's scary. You don't laugh. I can pal around with friends. because you'll get kicked in the face. Let's say that you got loose. Because they also don't learn how to lose.

1:18:55 You don't know how to play this shit at all. It's hard to manage. and getting my ass kicked. Like there's a lot of data there. Yeah. Without a doubt. Yeah. And I like little errors that you can't see while you're actually doing it. No. Apple cider. No, no, no. see some of these tendencies. You still got to be conditioned. They do a ball sport. them well i can't ice skate like you put me on some ice skates i fall you put me on some skis i

1:23:00 My kids can fucking skate the shit out of it. like me. Especially with bad motor patterns. There's so much left side. So if you can understand the positions, you can program to it. It's weird how like you'll have one side that's like tightened up. I'd get into a pistol. Like there's something about practicing opposite handed in certain things that actually allows

1:25:43 You're not even paying attention to me. barely know how to move my arm. Go shoot with your right hand. They went like the Paris you guys, and they're like, you know, they just like the Paris you guys they're like, you know Right. You can wave like this all day. That is rude. at home, wave like this. You should feel so lucky. You're all stable. In a second, be

1:27:52 Here, take this. That pinky's out creates stiffness. If you work with me and we get better, the only way we can measure it is we can measure wattage and poundage and output. it's dope school that's a beautiful place it is beautiful we live in Bam. for the, for the body. Can you bend over and pick something up? Right. Can you squat correctly? So when his toes are in,

1:30:29 The issue is, is he doing that because that's the only reason, only way he can move? They were in guard. It's a right position with your feet turned out. Walk with your feet straight. first we prioritize nervous system for the reasons we talked about, which includes the relationship between your pelvis and your spine, which is the best position You lose power, you lose position, you lose mechanics.

1:32:59 Let me just say first that punching, so fighting is not necessarily the best expression of human movement, right? It has to be. I thought you were saying was never go into that. You can't, you can't dip any, you can't change directions. Watch kids walk exactly their dads. I always thought it was a genetic thing I move on the balls of my feet well. Right.

1:35:16 mechanics, the fascia, the arch, the bony structures pick up the arch and the whole Right. But we know that when the foot starts to turn out past that, I can measure your hip function. High heels. What do I think? High heels? No bullshit. Jumping and landing, screwing my feet into the ground, squatting, teaching deadlifting. So what that really is is practice, practice, practice, practice.

1:38:03 wrestling i mean it's essentially double underhooks. Well, either that kid is really – he's got his positions. And some of that is the train, train, train, train, train. Who says position before submission? Depending on where you are, it's the correct technique that's been assumed after hundreds of years or decades or whatever it has been of testing and competition.

1:39:37 I understand. I was thinking of clock jokes, but I'm like, no, that's actually kind of the same thing. So he goes around the world and picks up dead people. Like you can't be in a good position with a stretcher down the stairs, but they know how to protect themselves. because there's like certain shit. Jake Shields likes this grip too, It's perfect.

1:41:58 So if you've got a guy in a guillotine and your shoulder is forward, your shoulder is rolled forward, you don't have as much squeezing power. You don't have the same amount of leverage put into that versus if your shoulder's back And I'll tell you, like Forrest Griffin is a ninja about his own systems. All of those things are the same language. So, all right.

1:43:21 I've been doing that. I have zero pain. Where did you hear that? I have a jet with a lacrosse It doesn't hurt. And it's nothing, it's not serious. Right. I have this weird left tweak. And it's nothing. Everything feels like it moves good. It was all knotted up. web like all my fascia kids out there this is a this is a little known fact it doesn't still resolve. You have to teach people to move first and you have to take this approach.

1:46:20 I have been in surgeries where they have literally – like they look at a guy's knee and the knee looks like a bloody cave. have herniated discs that are asymptomatic. They just don't hurt. You'll recover that thing. What sleep. And the people out here know they don't get enough sleep, sleep less than six hours a day, you can be 30% immune compromised, and

1:48:06 No, he's a bit older. Tim Sylvia. to break down. But you're really good when you're 34. You're really good when you're 35. Why have We're being able to extend guys' careers because we resolve their positions. One of the things that happens is the hip ends up in a more stable position. you don't know what stenosis is it means you're extension sensitive if you put your butt back like

1:50:14 Okay. Well, it's in the back. So what happens is if I take Serious arm problems. Not always. That's not your fault. And they basically end up defaulting to this bone-on-bone position. Okay on bone position in all fairness though he's getting hit from the side by fucking gorillas I think that happens a lot, though. If that same person, say, for example, understands how to squat, understands how to deadlift, understands the proper organization of the spine.

1:53:15 So I'm overextended. So I'm overextended. Now every time I get hit, boom, now that's That's like Bo Jackson, right? But I'm just saying that in defense of Shane. No one's saying. I learned this from you. This guy had to eat like a foot long horse cock in like an hour. You're trying to help him. You're coaching him. coaching he's making jokes he's flirting with the girls he's in and

1:55:11 And you think you take the first couple of bites. That sounds so crazy, but there's shit like livers and kidneys. You just have to eat it. I know. That's what it's like. Got to control the clock, bro. in middle school billions of reps accelerated under big loads with 300-pound guys, accelerated in the ring. And what we're seeing is that that guy has rung the bell on his back, seriously,

1:57:24 Okay, stop, Brian. Stop, stop, stop. This everyone's so happy. Okay, stop, bro. Buffalo penis makes me gag all the time. So I love, I mean, you should be able to wrestle your whole life, right? You can't just pick out this hungry kid this is my friend Yoshi is 63 belt, he's a real black belt. His movements are, you know, he's just smart. He doesn't

1:58:58 We're in an epoch. Yeah, it's like 65. Young man. What it's all about is not They do the same thing. an art of trust as well as is flow kickboxing you know you know that as much as anybody which is I mean, not a lot of people realize that. You watch a guy like San Chai, fuck around. Well, because of Bukow, they outlawed clinching in K-1 Just boom. Oh, my God.

2:02:00 Quantity. All that is is a mechanism of stability, right? Even windmills. They don't fuck around, dude. recovering, their heart rate stays the same. Boom, boom, boom, they're driving. You lay down at night, is really also about – It's relaxing. How do we give people their access to their diaphragm? Their testosterone comes back, and their testosterone is really low.

2:05:23 take an ambient all the soldiers surviving start, they take an Ambien, all the soldiers position of your spine, your body doesn't work very well. The whole thing, just like in your out when they're in that bad position. Don't do that. compromises right you're not putting out the same vo2 your breathing is inefficient that diaphragm It's never, it's important, especially during training,

2:07:48 I want you to make errors. Ciders are delicious. They say, you want a cider? I didn't give a fuck. I'm not scared. I'll have a Z-Mint to please, I believe. And you're getting mad. You never see the fat person on a McDonald's commercial. And it is also – look, there's nothing wrong with having corporations as long as the – even if the corporations are bullshitting people in that way with advertising rather, not lying.

2:10:28 are taking um you know responsibility for nutrition sleep more so now you see it everywhere They fucking scream and shit. But everybody knows now, like, was reading it i was like in my mind i was like this guy fought with fucking swords listen to him It's a terrible combat stance. It makes sense. but do they understand what those good positions are do they understand what like if i have knee

2:13:18 He understood how the long sword meant. Why are you lifting weights? That's the problem. It's like people who are barf worthy yeah that's the the the metaphor for saying the training what if I didn't ever fight or express this? No, come on. Our thinking has to be integrated enough. dealing. of sense. And I think this is the first time where this kind of information has been so freely

2:16:24 And that dude sends it to another dude and he goes man I've been having a problem just I bet he did. A heavyweight guy that could do a one-arm pull-up. When he fucked up Koshaka for the title, when he fucked up TK, just teed off on him. Boss took it with Kevin Randleman. Was he throwing strikes? He was trying to get up. It's because Randleman put him where he wanted to every single fucking time.

2:18:54 the bottom because random got tired and this is where i think that judges need to start taking guy on the bottom is going you say it all the time guy's going for submissions who's attacking who And people who have been in Thailand and understand Muay Thai know that they play music during the fight. They're going to fight harder. So these guys have fought for six minutes already, and the fight doesn't even start, according to the judges, until the third round.

2:20:46 It's Will. There's certain guys. It's really strange. where guys that aren't physically talented All the fighters say that. Physical movement hasn't been discovered or really like attuned on the same level. is that if I understand what the athlete needs to do when he's squatting, get you to understand the correct mechanics of the body while you're moving in a controlled

2:23:39 It has to scale. That's like – I mean that's Chequionda thinking right there. but i think that uh that's actually been disproven. Can I change that? Can I limit the damage? Boxers as well. You're not making sense. on looking at concussions. Edson Barbosa started it off. the first time he's ever thrown in a fight, he knocks What's awesome is it's a half-beat strike, meaning that the time it takes for the person to turn actually gives a flinch response where a guy's like, oh, shit.

2:27:39 They don't even throw kicks. I'm going to knock down a whole bunch. Vitor One of our definitions of best athlete is who's the kid who can pick up the new skill the fastest. is how do you measure lifestyle? and their physician. Are you in favor of that about testosterone replacement therapy amongst combat athletes? And he gets – now he has the same testosterone levels as a guy that's 20 years old

2:29:32 so it's just like so subjective when they're fighting? And whoever does the most work and remains the freshest wins. your ability to perform work. it will make you better at those things. No, no. Do I know people did steroids? You're like, that is barely a human being. Pride fighter. And if you don't know who Fedor is, Yeah, dude. And destroying killers.

2:32:42 That guy's outlier. Those guys trained hard. But we see people making – covering up bad lifestyle, bad nutrition, and that's the problem. You can't give a guy thunder, right? And I think a lot of it is, one, mechanics play a lot – have a lot to do with it. Nervous system fires. Do you think some guys... Yeah. going on before your punch lands. If you

2:35:32 We have a coach in our gym who's Russian who was plucked out of the Ukraine to be in a Russian swimming program when she was five. He's going to be good at this. I can optimize you. And that's what people don't realize. you're fucked. I wanted to talk to you turning point because he went up to fight john ruiz and he fought john ruiz at heavyweight he

2:38:08 and all of a sudden you drop a whole bunch of weight, That's how we learned it all. And if we look at just being dehydrated or just salt, being down, just total salts, you can slow that reaction time coupled with being dehydrated, coupled with challenges in the nervous system. It's really – and also, the elephant in the room is the gear. Totally. I think, yeah.

2:39:57 Totally. And just in training where you're going to get the kind of traumatic injuries that almost don't heal naturally. know in mma specifically you have so many variables that you have to cover so you're constantly you're It's fucking horrible. Well, I think with fighters, when I say it's impossible to not do it, what I mean is it's impossible to not do it if you're not approaching the whole situation knowledgeably with a heart monitor and someone who knows what the fuck is going on.

2:41:32 So I was lucky enough to be under his wing, strength and conditioning. Like, hey, what's the master blueprint? I know I'll be in less pain if I don't eat gluten, but why am I still in pain? I had a chiropractor just tell me that. She was talking to me about an inflammation You're dead. Sundays, right? Everybody's on it like Joe. So how about this? And we saw people's cholesterol like triple, quadruple.

2:44:57 Go right ahead. It's observable measure. Who's that fighter who has his own hunter? That guy chokes out deer. Fuck. They're really fucking good for you. You eat them and they taste so much better. They eat mosquitoes and flies, they'll take a bucket and they whip this bucket through a big cloud And the human being is designed for survival. My kid is super sensitive.

2:47:55 Hey, you're a terrible father. No, I'm a Here's the deal. You should never take our word for it. is like the brilliance behind kelly's system is like you do it the test retest is immediate like like, the cross ball, What's going on? But it comes in the form of spaghetti. Cat sleeping with dogs. You will never go gluten-free because you just can't let go.

2:50:40 Luscious breasts. But it's a drug, right? But like, look, what you have to understand is, are you trying to optimize your life, Yeah. And you should live a life. a Supple Leopard. I'm so glad that you were the guy that invented the lacrosse ball because that thing, I'm telling you, has helped me more over the last couple months. a massage every day.

2:52:38 Doza. Same in the house, ladies and gentlemen. It is MobilityWOD, Bitches. That's gangster as fuck. Do you have a Twitter? No, I do not 15 followers. That's gangster as fuck. Zero tweets. Bitches. That's gangster as fuck. And we're going to work out something next week for Kevin Smith. We'll see you guys Monday.