Joe Rogan Experience #405 — Steven Pressfield, Aubrey Marcus Transcript

Transcript

0:00 I like doing it this way. We should do it this way more often, where we get the commercials out of the way before the guests arrive. And Mr. Pressfield. and he said a long time ago guests would come over i would go community lazy bitch take this and go right go get something done Pre-Honit days. Everyone that I know. I've got to work out eventually.

2:39 where all these other options come up, and it's a great exchange with the audience. and you'll try to work it out on stage and you'll eventually get there. But really what you need to There's definitely a lot of hard work behind the scenes, but there's also a lot of winging the better my mind works. It'll function without the regret of not being able to take care of whatever it is, whether it's a gambling issue.

5:10 sort of a matter-of-fact way about what's this ethereal, sort of whimsical topic, the But yeah, pay attention. Some guy gets off on hearing his own voice. It's to listen to them without having to do them or notepad or whatever. The muse is some real shit, whatever it is. and I just want to smack them. I leave the window open. that's what john mayer that's how you say it mayor that's what john mayer saw all of a sudden

8:58 that people have turned into your fiction, Dun, dun, dun. But it's like a good version of that. but I'm a big fan of history podcasts now. But I'm a huge, huge fan of that stuff. of writing The Legend of Bagger Vance And I have a bunch of tricks and tools like crazy psychedelic medicine in the jungles of South America, things like that that help me get there.

11:20 Yeah, I would love to. You want to get it right. Or be yourself. They learn to kind of get out of their own way. That's what's happening. Forget about all the rocket ships and all the different things that you have to go through years and years of school before they let you fuck with. animal. And it's a ridiculous Like when I meet young kids, I'm always like, dude, listen to me.

15:26 Makes his own, yeah. is a past. You know, if it's a perfectly known future it's already You know, this thing on our upper lip, this little indentation, In the Greek world, there's a thing that when you had to cross into the underworld, one of the aspects of it is that your memory of it goes away almost instantly. You forget dreams like that, right?

18:15 say that what they can do is when they get in a dream, then it's like Yeah, there's definitely resistance on that. We like messing with our minds in a healthy way. Well, once you find out that there's And I took it. the erasing the memory of the brilliant knowledge by the angels, and to procreate the species. down the default mode network it's called which is one of the filtering devices in the brain

21:38 What do you think, Aubrey, about the idea or the theory that when we're children, when we're infants, we're seeing all that. And we accelerate whatever we do. And we complicate our lives deeper and deeper and deeper as we get older, almost as if to avoid silence. And so I wrote Gates of Fire, which was about ancient Greece. like that. And what's kind of weird to me here, I've written like whatever, five or six books about ancient Greece, but yet I'm not remotely interested in ancient Rome.

24:04 Almost all. Nobody wants to play the North in the Civil War reenact, you know, ancient Ireland, whatever. I don't know about that. An incredible combination of your genetics, your life experiences, your atmosphere, your personal experiences that you've sort of developed your personality around. I don't give a shit about the mummy. It tells me is crazy so you could run into someone that feels like a wild animal and you know that that's a part

26:23 And that's a wolf. Because we were talking yesterday about baboons hasn't decided to kill you and eat you, doesn't this interaction with Like, they set up people. Have you ever done any vivid dreaming on the subject of wolves? And then someone actually sent me a wolf and a gorilla having sex. And we're walking through this rainforest and the deer's fear comes out like a puff of mist,

29:10 I wonder if there's a like a part of us that's kind of repressed in the they got to itch that scratch directly the sword so do you think that there's something you know And, I mean, I can see just sitting here in this room with you four guys, there's One of his deals was, you know, the old windjammer ships that like would require a crew of 150 to go up in the sails and sail around Cape Horn.

32:09 Because they care about bringing peace or the American way? Because I have a lot of people that read my books are in the military. Yeah. That's the one thing that we find most distasteful in other people. I'm like, that's a weasley dude. I'm talking to my lawyer. Like, I'm done. They're around us all the time. intention here? who was in the other day, he uses him for the action report.

35:50 No, Christmas. We were looking for something to do for Joe's fans. in time. And so I think even without a plan, his authentic self, what he was bringing, what's inside his heart and his spirit was going to play out on this stage regardless. I could tell this sort of embarrasses you I mean, I see, I can tell this Bunch of weak bitches out there. What characteristics do you look for in guests that you invite on to the show?

38:14 but they have a very well thought out opinion, I have a feeling that I've just been shit out into this world that no one knows how the fuck anything works. I think it made me just start thinking about things constantly. something like a podcast where you can have a conversation with people for It's your learning. It's just floating around. And then somebody else goes, do you see that?

41:20 How is that possible? and it just wears them down until they can't see that anymore. And you never win. You never win. and you'll be a shithead again. It was a really amazing school because this one guy who was the main instructor, he was this brilliant guy, Jae-hun Kim. And that stuck in my head when I was like 14 or 15, whenever I was. And I've carried that with me

44:37 exploding out of his ear and his eyeballs and everything, and suddenly he's given a structure. rage that's possible too i've seen i i saw this woman screaming at some woman of some sort of a them yourself and so this is what we're talking about before about entering into another dimension well, shit, wait a minute. Over here, this is solid ground. And this got a laugh. This made

48:37 Yeah, but he had sex with Linda Ronstadt, right? So anyway. I know that they've learned to apply their authentic self. Once you understand the way broadly, you can see it in all things. the initial steps, that one foot in front of the other to get there and to see progress and to I can remember that I used to be, for years I struggled like that, where I was bored with things.

52:13 But it was fear. passed it because one of the really important things about your book, I think is that you, you're really objective, This script that wasn't working. How did you get over that fear? inspiration. It was just sit the fuck down, put a piece of paper in a typewriter and start, Like a law almost. And after doing that about 10 times, and, of course, nobody listens to you, finally I just said I had like a two month break. And I just said, I'm going to write this down on paper. And then when somebody

56:14 I'm sabotaging myself. Because that's not true. And I think in the absence of that, trap. And they're trapping furs. And that's how they buy, like, snowmobiles and, You know, they're showing how to, like, the craftsmanship involved in making these snowshoes and sleds. No, no, no, no. a little while ago, the other thing, one of the things about tribes is they are unbelievably cruel to whoever, if they capture anybody else or if there's anyone who violates the tribe.

59:36 And we don't have action as this kind of through line in our life of, okay, got to go achieve that next goal, which is meat. And then when you get to the top, which is where we are, the needs become, you know, because we have grocery stores, you know, there's no bombs going off in the street. where we're kind of floating in space, you know, like George Clooney and, you know, trying

1:01:25 said is really important, that thing of cheat code, that it's almost like a cheat code to life. The idea of the Internet, the idea of computers, big screen TVs, projections, the things that we can do today, Wi-Fi in a plane, insane, insane stuff. Well, you were saying, I think you're absolutely right, Joe. You know, we act to please others, like in high school where, you know, you have to be in the right clique and wear this and that.

1:04:47 Why do we live so far from each other? can get really sketchy. And I don't think we're designed for it. I think you're right. But the flip side of that is, and I feel this a lot, is I want to be alone. It's like all of a sudden, there we got that we got the hardware we just don't have the software right yeah yeah a lot if you were one of those crazy guys living in Siberia, I mean, there's some shit you got to

1:08:31 and I'd just make up a bunch of shit and see who's with me. So if you want to kind of take a look, I think the book is about to go on sale. It's the same sort of thing as psychedelics. Not dangerous. Because we were not tapped into that other dimension at all. Yeah. and then these other people came in and invaded their culture and they called them the gray ones because they didn't see that shit there was like whoa what is this human walking

1:11:46 slippery the the psychedelic experience was so profound and it was changing my regular everyday day, day in, day out, in front of you. It's flying through the air. Like, he sees flying snakes. He goes, I don't have to do anything. They're all in front of me right now. I see a dragon in front of you. It's flying through the air. He's a brilliant guy, and he's cool as shit,

1:13:14 It's not fried because you're only putting something in that already exists. take if you drink blood or if you take put stuff in your body that really bad You're not taking out something and putting more in. there all the time another but but you've got a good point though it's a really good point as far you don't need us. And the balls just check out. So obviously putting too much testosterone into

1:16:07 So for me, I hear David Cho's story, and there's a lot of cool information and visions and things out there. There's no shaman. Tell me what is ayahuasca. So when you take, like if you're eating grass, like phalaris grass, It's one of my tools in the shed that I use to tap into my authentic self. Well, it's also, to me, it almost makes me sad when someone doesn't know about it

1:19:26 For some people it just gets them high. You can have a naturally occurring psychedelic trip in an isolation tank. And they're prevalent in that area. voice that you can understand but you know is in english that once that that experience has I mean, it might be there looking like a big dinner plate sitting in the middle of a field because it wants you to eat it so you can tell you things.

1:22:07 You know, to bring this kind of back to some of the stuff that you wrote, I know for myself and the psychedelic experience for me, you wrote in your book, The Authentic Swing, Well, I've seen it and I've felt it and I've been it. the flesh and blood and testosterone. But then when the highest self is in charge, that's when you're doing your best work.

1:24:01 It loves the creation that it's in, first of all. That's my authentic swing is when I'm that bowling ball that rolls through and says, hey, guys, have you heard about this thing called ayahuasca? wrong way and it's ready to the human race you mean the human race yeah red When you accomplish something even more so. It almost motivates more movement.

1:26:22 There was something I read yesterday or today earlier about the prince with all that cash. You need all of it. you were objective and you weren't attached to the life and death of the individuals that were They're forcing themselves to accomplish more and more amazing technological feats so they can kill each other quicker. 18-foot oarfish just found off of Catalina Island today.

1:28:20 Is it radioactive? It's not built in there because you've got no chance. Or fish. You need nothing to talk about abyss. We call it specials because they used to be like an HBO comedy special. stage or worked out on paper i can't just go up raw and clean and then finish finish my hour special And if I could do seven, I would do seven. far and then you just, you know, diminishing returns start to kick in. But I do think,

1:31:51 even if it's only for an hour. and it's because I'm not in comedy shape You don't go, oh, this is that thing that I used to do. in shape, all that extra thinking that I have to do, if it's not coming completely natural, it might, it might look that to what Joe just said? Well well the mind boy wants to think about Sometimes it's raining, man. them pretty much. You just got to cook them.

1:34:43 battle. And to me, I'm a big proponent The parasite is what the Toltecs call it. It was a fight against your own weaknesses. And I think that's a war that we wage every day. and nothing else you know my self-love does not talk that nice my self-love is the get up pussy You got to have that. I mean, who, who would we allow talk as much shit to ourselves as, as ourselves? Right. You know,

1:37:33 It doesn't mean pretend that you're something awesome if you're not. You're never going to get it right. The way to look at it, in my opinion, Your life is in shambles. All of a sudden, you know, you're at the gym, You could be a total loser. It doesn't matter. his whole life. There's plenty of people skinny their whole life. Yeah, it's not Michael Phelps.

1:39:34 And those little anecdotes that are sort of stories on myself But this thing has been out since 2002, I mean, even Turning Pro, which is very analogous to the War of Art, Yeah. There's got to be a way to do this better. They're throwing a cigarette and someone else is going to do it. What are the distinctions for different people who want to read one of these books?

1:43:02 So that, you know, turning pro would be kind of the second one to read if anybody Tides of War is a very difficult read. Okay. Whereas Tides of War is a story that's full of ambiguity which is the way the world really is. We don't understand what's going on or we're flagging in our passion for it. So if we can see a great movie where Rocky comes out and hangs in there against Apollo

1:45:26 And that's why it's a harder sell to do something that's more ambiguous. That Spanish gentleman? I need to see happiness at the end. I don't know. Why? That strict adherence to a code is, uh, well, we do respond in stories to archetypes, right? To the knight or the Merlin like character or something like that. But of course, and that's, you know, the one lone person who lives by a very strict code,

1:47:36 in the air and you're like, damn, he's back. He's practicing. Right. all entirely self-discipline self-generated self-reinforced I don't allow myself. want to do that and then when you just say ready go and then force yourself it's it's the ability Weaseliness. And I know one of the things the Spartans had to do is they had to run a marathon with a mouthful of water.

1:50:43 of rest. It was and it was. And then I thought to myself, ah, fuck it. That's silly shit. You're going to drink water eventually anyway. That's what I was telling myself. You're not depriving yourself of water. Thank you. You held that shit in your mouth. That's what I thought. That's what I was trying to tell myself. You're absolutely right. You're going to drink water

1:51:59 the water out, you'll feel a lot better. Yeah, and then you're going to It's in your mouth already. that's really dangerous. found after you were swimming in the ocean to the point where you thought you were going to drown. what it's about to hit the highest levels, and competing. Competing was a big one. Competing in You have to know exactly who you are. And you have to have a very objective assessment of your abilities. Otherwise you're going to get

1:54:19 knock you out, that's their goal. They're trying really I felt terrible So that's where I learned from. You know, like, where am I? actually happened from a movie when this process was actually when i saw braveheart as a kid And I was like, William Wallace wouldn't have stopped. Your book, Meeting Joe. And that's really what it is. On some nights, I still believe that a car with the gas needle on empty can run about 50 more miles if you have the right music very loud on the radio.

1:58:14 Same stuff, you know, same stuff. Or like Aubrey, you were saying you're running a little farther on the beach. You know, this worked. people. You get it from books. You get it from conversations. You get it from music. Right, they're still trying to get at that same source, that pure source. Is he what makes you play pool? Yeah, creating. So we as human beings, when we can do that, that's pretty cool.

2:02:46 I was talking to someone who I really respect, these these nuclear bombs do it in a dramatic and terrifying way but that's one opposing force by And that's what you can be sure to change. you start writing you have an idea like but I'm reading Stephen King's book on Do you have, like, a cork board where you put, like, index cards on it Yeah. That's a little too much mechanical for me, but I do try to, I mean, a lot of times I will start purely on instinct and just take it from there.

2:06:14 finding the tippy top part of a buried asteroid or something. So I sort of try to just partly of this thing? and that scene and the other scene and I'll get lost if I do that. I'll just write this scene and that scene, the other scene, It's interesting because he didn't go too far into depth as far as what I've read at least that he – I don't know if along the way he writes things down or sets up an ending

2:07:54 But his point being is that when he's writing, Maybe. It was that as well. What a joy. It's awesome. Whoa! movies, your books rather, that have Oh, wow. So, you're... Is it the Hollywood machine that takes something and can take your ideas, which are, like, as you were talking about, the tides of war. but they run the numbers and they say, movies are amazing

2:11:16 three people Steven Seagal Of course there is, but it's a goddamn cop movie. I knew you guys were going to do this. that was going on yeah same thing as the werewolf, I suppose. the same fucking thing happens every time. I mean there's – I want to do the same thing over and over again sometimes. Right, right, right. So I sort of try to follow the same process, make it a story a little bit.

2:14:59 how do you overcome that enemy, turning pro. And the third part is getting into the metaphysics of it. What and achieving this state of mind Same with golf and this. So I kind of grew up in the caddy shack, just like, you know, Rodney Dangerfield. I remember when I graduated from college, Yeah, I love the game. I mean, I've been so bad for so long, but I kind of forgive myself now.

2:17:25 I think people are being pussies. and I can, you know, but I'm pretty much carter the way it is these days, you know? We get in a thing. I was in, I guess it's like Beverly Hills the other day, at a meeting and i'm uh at this uh network and i'm looking out the window There's two courses there. and so influential as far as business meetings or a little weird or noble and good.

2:19:46 and brian as a young man remembers that like that's just it's just a game and she was like and an equal stake in the future you have to kind of be a part of this little goofy club of these It's a part of our tribal instincts. I mean, how much do you learn about somebody when you roll with them, Joe? Some dudes just fucking fall down. They flatten out yeah it's interesting it's um

2:22:20 I know the feeling when some days in these biggest games in high school that kind of restrictive energy out, The only way you learn pressure is to deal with pressure. Just like, you know, essentially it's resistance. You know? disproportionate away from the actual danger to take hold, it's almost giving credence, you know, Who cares? When am I going to see a spider? I don't know. I'll fucking deal with it when it comes. Or who

2:25:10 Oh, yeah, for sure. I'll video it or something. Yeah. I'll get claustrophobic in there. And have you ever seen the movie Altered States? You float. complete darkness. How dare you not walk the walk? Yeah, you'll get through it 100% because it's the most so you don't feel the water. if we were having this conversation Like, as we're sitting, This shit's all coming in.

2:28:08 and all that stuff that it doesn't have to deal with right now. the things that you would come up with We're going to force you to walk the walk, sir. You know what I mean? which one should I pick? And then I just stopped myself, and I was like, just because there's a pressured event, and if the birds fly this way or that way, I think there is feng shui or whatever it is.

2:30:40 Are we going to get on a cliff in Malibu or whatever it is? Yeah. It's somehow he makes it work, but he's got to tie and retie his shoe, you know, 12 times to get it right. You know, I can't prove it, but I think there's something there. Pool, too. which is the game-winning ball. that I play in this tournament with motherfucker, this guy just won again.

2:33:35 momentum force that causes seemingly chance events to more line up in your what's really interesting i had uh sam harris on the podcast he's coming back again at the end of It feels sensibly different. Same like in pool. If you were going to measure people who are You would have to basically go to basketball There was a moment I was playing in pool.

2:35:43 ball was going I knew exactly where it was going at all times. It was there. Who knows? It's just what you're talking about, Joe. You get into that place where That's unluck. It's processing information where you're accumulating, accumulating, But the thing about pool, much like everything else, It's weird. pool? How do you diffuse that little voice that comes up? It seems to be a self-fulfilling prophecy.

2:38:42 I stop. I stop. I stop the voice, first of all, and then begin your whole pre-shot ritual It's like I said, it's a swim. pushing yourself, as long as you're still trying to create, as long as you're still Ooh, those things fucking fire me up, man. How'd you find out about us? And, you know, I think people have said to me, hey, Joe, We beat it. we would be happy to have you on again.

2:41:34 or do you have somebody else do that? Okay. Thanks, Joe. Use the code name Rogan and save yourself some money. And we will see you also tomorrow night. And then, of course, Saturday is the UFC. end of the month and a lot of other good guests as well.