Joe Rogan Experience #444 — John Hackleman Transcript

Transcript

0:01 Joe Rogan Podcast, check it out! You're still walking around in gi pants, You can't argue. And you were there through his entire ride, man. He was going to do that anyway. And he's talked about it before, too, that he just, like, would hit a guy, And he would drill it, drill it, drill it. of it. And he beat a lot of guys and and then when he his chin wasn't quite what it was he just didn't that

3:35 his style and, like, the results of his fights. He was a fucking animal. And then, boom, he just put him away. Yeah. And, I mean the it's not even had the overhand. I was yelling at him for the signal for the right hand, I do think it was he had It's scary. A really good athlete and such a great guy. a dance on youtube because i did a little dance and uh with my jammy pack i love to dance and uh

7:57 Kyle Kingsbury-ness. Yeah, I love that. Chuck did not want any more damage because we love Kyle. which is, I mean, technically a martial art too, but they just don't carry themselves. Most of them What's your name? It was a good fight and it was a brutal. Yeah, it's cool to see. All of them have the martial arts, the ethics. they did it because it makes you a better person and all these ideas of

12:28 our team but there wasn't with other teams and I mean guys like Chuck I think Chuck was one of the But you'll see that with Chuck. Didn't he do that when he stopped? but um but like uh chuck had that from the very beginning he also had that with randy you know He wasn't with two of them that I know of. it was a perfect example. I mean, you know, like Chuck, who's a big fan, I think it's Shaq O'Neal

15:26 Shaquille. He interacts with everyone with dignity and respect. so he was pissed. a situation where he uh you know he underestimated and randy's on top of him and he's exhausted and Chuck loved to fight. Right. whole thing then he'll call me back that night he goes goes, well, my time was so and so, and I did this much weight. And I was like, oh shit. Okay. And he's a, yeah, he's a freak. I

18:25 and shoulder pliability. So they called him up and he did 21 of them in a row. So I think that's – Glover's a natural freak too, just like Corda's. many times and i i realized that and i had to get my strength and conditioning and stuff in order But there was, since he, one thing written in probably 1952. He would try to fight. I thought he was very light,

21:02 right he was in the 90s that's so crazy yeah What a nightmare it must have been to fight that guy. Huge, huge student of the game. That was the one. damn, I wish that guy was in the UFC. but the big name was always Glover. Good kicks, good punches, good chin, good aggression, great jiu-jitsu. landed on baiter he's a monster man. When he fought Sojuku?

24:11 where he was destroying people. He knocked him out, And then you watch the Glover fight, Yeah. And now he's fighting Jon Jones. The Gustafson guys are out there, don't expect and and still doesn't even as a champion you know i mean he's not he's not But just knowing the power that Glover has, I think that would put the most fear into me. Do you have any videos of him hitting the bag or hitting the pads that are online?

27:34 Yeah. Yeah. Huh. And it took that Nate Diaz fight for people to see, He's durable as fuck. That last fight with Melendez in Strikeforce. he'll go yeah like he chose to get in a fight like that with diego like he could have avoided that he Yep. best strikers like tactical strikers. He's so slick. That was, like, real high-level shit. But there was a couple of fights where he got taken to the ground where I was even more impressed with the way he cinched up a triangle on somebody.

31:39 to him and picking his brain. I've had long conversations with him, picking his brain about You're always calming the guy down while you're in there. I'll never forget when Court fought that first big fight. In that first fight, I mean, it was one of the best performances of Ryan's career, that first round. or ryan rather ryan jensen looked so good in that fight in that first round i mean he showed like

33:40 Yeah, I was pretty nervous in that one. I mean, you never tell a guy you're losing. Or anything with the word losing in it, it's a negative. You have to. and somebody will fucking take your lunch money when you get home that's a lot of Yeah, tell me. That would be my dream come true. I hated fighting when I was fighting. He was like, in the ring? a fun little martial arts school called the pit and a bunch of fun guys training and having a

37:39 and there was a little controversy on that with the Dana White thing. But then towards the end of his career, I go, oh, shit, okay, We see how that worked out. Because he's a super nice guy. He is that guy through and through and i mean i'm probably the closest to him People you love competing. and not liking and not wanting to do it I mean, I love all of them.

40:41 retire when he wants to retire when he chooses to retire. When he chooses to retire, he's a man. He's one of the great champions of all time. He's got to make the decision. Chuck was a huge pay-per-view draw. I don't care if a baseball bat break his legs. I didn't want him to fight at all. And right then I said, that's it. And we walked up Madonna and we said, you know what, no more.

42:47 like the Rashad fight or the Shogun fight? What about the Rich Franklin fight, though? I mean, I i've seen you know They did. And he said, no, this is the lip. Yeah, yeah, he got knocked out. because i was more trying to build him up more i think those um watching a guy from the beginning And genetics. There's a beginning. TRT is another one. you, can still remember the days when he was a boxer, when he was the fucking baddest motherfucker on earth, when he was lighting up Cleveland Williams.

46:47 superstardom as a fighter i never got you know my ears blown out by raging crazy crowds like And he treats people all the time, soldiers, football players, people with traumatic brain fuck you up. And if that's the case, that's a very tricky subject, isn't it? the brain can cause a low t but i think it can also cause a high T because when you're messing with it, some guys get extra high T's like an HGH.

49:41 I think can alter it. Yeah, that's a pretty safe bet. than they do in MMA because of the wrestling, the clinching, That certainly is a possible scenario. that's what's scary about it we're not all built uniformly durable The pituitary gland is very sensitive, apparently, according to him. the whole thing could get thrown off. And maybe it is right.

53:24 But I have heard a lot of guys throughout their career start slurring their speech, Yeah, that's the big question is that if you've incurred a head injury, and the head injury, So we're a subject because, you know, so many guys are on testosterone replacement therapy Yeah, I'll get you connected to his stuff online. And it's easy to say you're low because you go, I mean,

55:29 But now with that abuse of the TRT or your testosterone, now your career is over. That's crazy. Yes, for sure. They think that testosterone is what's making them rapists, which I don't think it is, but whatever. so it turns the man into a woman. He couldn't believe I wasn't on it. That's what I used to take back home. Oh, you were just eating ramen noodles.

58:48 Ooh, that's nice. But I'm not saying I like. Is he really? Oh, fuck yeah, he is. Drop you on your fucking head. But the difference between a phenomenal boxer and a guy who has the ability to stop a guy like Ben Wallace from taking him down, good fucking luck. He's going to shoot on one, No, I know. We hit them while they're coming in Do you practice monkey paw on each other?

1:01:12 shit and all the martial arts that were sort of exposed or integrated into mixed martial arts not the most effective. Shotokan, Taekwondo guys. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I don't remember. He was still fighting against guys like Chuck. I mean, you would never believe that he wasn't a lifelong Taekwondo student. He's much more well-rounded now, yeah. Remember that fight?

1:04:04 Oh, my God. He's been through so much stuff. Yeah, ride. The sister thing? Oh, my God. No, no, she's murdered. I mean, this is just a totally different guy than the guy we're seeing now. No. Jesus. We'll pull up Mark Hunt in the fucking first round. Classic Dutch kickboxer. They threw him in to the, remember? Yeah. Once he got Sakuraba down, and this was sakuraba just couldn't do it anymore you

1:06:31 Jesus Christ, look at this fucking head kick. for this upcoming Well, 205, 203? Is that what it was in pride i think i'll go with 199 but i think he had a hard time making a guy that even though i love martial artists and guys who show a lot of respect and bow to each Rampage, to me, Rampage for the persona But even those days, I just always He talks a lot of trash, and he's smart, and he knows how to promote fights in that regard.

1:09:14 Recently? Like when I go to the UFC and it's just being around these guys, because it's now legal and whatever To me, it's almost like the weight cut thing. before they start their cut. dancing around, dancing around. He's like a regular guy again. It's just so unhealthy. It's So it's such a fun – and your brain is all electricity. So to throw that off just to cut weight, and you do,

1:12:23 I think it does. Kid just didn't make weight. They're going to come in heavier than their opponent and go, what, are you scared? make weight whatever and they'll come in not weakened at all. I think he was at least 5 pounds. Yeah, when they're usually over, they're over by a pound or a half pound. So it's the exact same if it would be the same the day of or the day before.

1:14:41 lose weight anyway, still dehydrate themselves and not really have enough time to properly rehydrate and then it could be really dangerous because most of the But, I mean, to be honest, you know, I try to train them So it's hard. No. and she was one of the best basketball players for a girl you know and and it's more acceptable for a man to have his scars in his face,

1:17:21 That would bother me. I mean, like when you watch most sports and then watch a guy play it, their skills and their heart is unbelievable. Some people have had some pretty bad gashes inside the Octagon. yeah like that too so they might be scarred lots of character in a woman john hackleman yeah i'm down and you're, you start sweating out, you know, that's when your water intake goes down and you start sweating out.

1:19:43 And they just basically starved themselves up to the fight yeah yeah and uh and we'd be wearing combat boots and and you I was like that Rocky guy and knocking my guys out. I would do my workouts here in Woodland Hills. Yeah, I remember that. if the guy knows how to do it unless you're arturo gatti you know so i think he dropped me three Outdated in what way?

1:22:59 called kaju kempo, karate, judo kempo, and boxing. you know, so I have Howley pride But growing up in Hawaii, they do not like Haole's. So I go back and forth with them, and they seem to work for me. because I want to know what they weigh. So, um, usually there's different workouts I do with them, And it was formed by some Kenji Tabata, some Japanese exercise physiologist who came up with that. And he proved it in his, you know, anybody can do their own test, but he proved it by doing these 20-second on, 10-second off protocol only eight times.

1:26:40 four where he's in Siberia and he's carrying logs around? Yeah. What is it about those old school training methods that are so appealing to us? you know, throw the ball and stuff. You know, he chopped a lot of logs, swung an axe all the time. And swinging There's something appealing about a guy out there in the snow chopping wood as opposed to some foo-foo with tights doing crunches in the gym with his feet up in the air.

1:28:40 And he also trains for bow hunting and gets in really good shape. These guys have to get in some serious shit Well, it weighs 1,200 pounds, John Hackleman, and you're going to have to get that fucking thing back seven miles, nine miles to your camp, and it might take you three days to do it, He has the meat. He's a hunter. And if the elk wins, it gets to run away and dodge that arrow.

1:31:07 know getting on that smith machine where it's all nice and smooth and doing some squats i'm not What are you going to do to her? Poor gal. It's RFA. I hope they do. Yeah, because but he just you know you know did so he did his first fight was Just gets in and then all of a sudden the advantage turns that quick. fight in the ufc but if you had to describe john with one word it wouldn't be power you know he

1:34:56 But you think the height. short and stocky but he had that kind of style where it was like very slick and hard to hit, but really didn't put you out with one shot, I think it would be a way less effective body type. It plays a part in triangles. arm bars it's harder to not give up arm bars there's all that room when you get these big that you uh you know you don't necessarily get that as much with guys with the shorter limbs

1:37:23 and the lever of those limbs yeah i think it's a pretty significant advantage on the ground as well yeah so i think That's actually kind of a fascinating idea, to have a basketball court-sized room where a guy could just run around. And then one round where you could only touch the body, like a karate point fight. You remember Drakka? the hell i can't believe i can't remember this i have too much information in my head, John Hackleman. As I get older, I feel like I'm getting stupider.

1:39:32 I forget. try to catch it, you might get a broken arm. right hook. That was a little while ago. Yeah, that's the last fight he's had. Why? He's busy. Got him with a beautiful overhand right or right hook. Yeah, he did a pretty big Powerful Wikipedia. And he does martial arts in the movie as well. watch that because i mean it's not easy to read a script and try to portray something or else the

1:41:33 What was that? i think he could i really do i think just being him in front of a camera with any in any background Randy's always got something cooking acting-wise. His son's not in the UFC anymore, though. The UFC is everything to him yeah and you know i'm a different kind of guy you know like i don't fault anybody I just think the UFC is fine. if I leave the UFC, I'm done.

1:44:05 I've never heard – you'd be considered a color commentator. I mean, it adds to the UFC. And it's really, the UFC just happened to step up with, never asked for this job i never pursued pursued it. I turned down Pride. But when Dana said, just do this one for me, like UFC 37 and a half, I'm like, okay, I'll do it. I could finish that dude's sentences.

1:46:38 It's a long ass time. I mean, you have so much knowledge when you're watching. and what should happen here and what might happen here So the fact that it's so seamless and so easy to do, but it's just really just because I'm okay this is one of the worst brain days i've had in weeks i'm thinking I trained right before I got here I'm exhausted so my fucking noodle's

1:48:32 the fucking kid he throws a head kick i see a guy like tj dillashaw and I see him evolve and grow like that, Kid's so fast and he can knock guys out, right before your eyes. That's one of the most exciting things for me and talking to It's my favorite punch. But then I find out along the way You ever heard of him? I don't know where he's from. I didn't know who he is.

1:51:50 It was like they're running up to him. He's like the world's best jiu-jitsu guy right now. without a doubt, one of the very best guys. and you're going to go up to him and say something. Yeah, it's a huge mistake. and lock something up until it breaks. I mean like Siler before a fight The last one she didn't, but she usually does. got this then we get up right to the end and Burch yelling and there's you know it's a massive UFC

1:54:50 And he goes, look, he goes, I'm joking. I don't know how much, but that's a good idea. Who knows? That's a scary one when they do that. You know a lot of that's HGH as well as the TRT? Who knows? So then when he tests positive and he has this excuse for it, If you go low, if your testosterone is low, I mean, yeah, we don't have nanograms like we do uh you know we don't have nanograms of of estrogen like we do testosterone we have picograms which is you know a trillionth

1:57:10 Women fight men? a low testosterone, mediocre Mexican boxers. Because if he has a really low testosterone and he's competing with guys like Glover who are natural, who are in really good shape, it could be potentially real dangerous. you know, like the dude, the idea that you could be a man for 30 years But I'm not gay, unfortunately. And they want you to accept her as a woman.

2:00:30 hormonally a woman the bone structure remains the same for 15 years they're talking about it like But I'm thinking for, so for the women, I mean, over 15 years, I think you're still a man because You know, and she's just, she's not really fucking good. So now he has a low T. There's certain things you can't do. If there's a way to stop people from doing it, that is the way, right?

2:03:19 Right, and a lot of people do. I have never let my guys do it it but now that it's becoming legal then I couldn't look at my guy in the eye and say no. You really care about those guys. nervous after fights, but I broke down after actually one of Glover's fights. And, and after the fight, I was sitting in a corner and I was just couldn't stop crying.

2:05:24 anymore. I just, I can't can't tolerate watching my guys get hurt. I couldn't even talk to him for hours after the fight because he did that. I know. Like, I mean, I'll throw in the towel so quick that, I mean, if my guy gets hurt, the towel is going in. Rampage threw some nasty elbows to the body. No, just I've heard. about using any sort of steroids in the past.

2:07:20 just lifting guys up and hurling them through the air. Show that again. If you're listening, I'm sorry. is ridiculously strong. If Rampage He hit so hard. His fight with Randleman in Pride Because he had the, I mean, his punching was just natural. Quentin Rampage Jackson, for people who saw him towards the end of his career in the UFC, But he was such – you know who you're reminding me of?

2:09:17 or macho facades. until you know we just shot the ultimate fighter season 19 and um i had never spent one minute with It was like, why are you belittling the judges? I was so scared in that fight. You throw a ball through a hoop. UFC heavyweight title. strangled him. Come here, Like, you couldn't fight him and look like Maurice Smith, everybody thought.

2:12:02 yeah just his his ups and downs and and he just has no censor about any of them, no excuses about anything. Hip replacement is teaching wrestling. No, he wasn't teaching wrestling. He hip replacement. Yeah, I was going to say that. Hip replacement is teaching wrestling. Do it a different way. As a nurse, knowing what you know, how nutty is the idea of sawing off the end of your fucking femur

2:13:31 and graham had just got a hip replacement six weeks later he's walking around no problem no He's got huge knee issues. There's a kick that hasn't made it into MMA yet. And he was knocking dudes out in karate tournaments. So unless you could knock – you can knock someone out with a spinning hook kick. Yeah, check him out. Yeah. He's old as shit here, man.

2:15:55 I just saw him, yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah, he was okay. Wow. Did you see his throw when he threw the guy they weren't sure about the rules. Well, let's just make it no takedowns. greatest kickboxer ever. Van Nuys. Yeah, I trained there in 94 when I first came there. Okay, he was doing some announcing. Who else is doing it with him? It started leaking. not his. It's not affiliated.

2:19:54 is actually one of Benny's black belts in Yukitodon. And I fought in one. and was like, And he told me, if you ever come to Los Angeles, look me up. Lived in Hawaii? what it was he moved to hawaii and they kind of adopted him and said he was uh and he would fill I don't think it was that good. Yeah, because he did not like leg kicks. That was the first guy to Wilson fucked him up with leg kicks as well. Yeah, because he did not like leg kicks.

2:21:55 All his techniques. he did a whole series of movies do you ever remember a movie And she looked at him and she goes, who do you think you're talking to? And we used to love, we used to watch that movie all the time. I'm sure we'll know. How many women? And guys were complaining about that grass skirt, too. I know. Like 10 seconds into the first round,

2:24:35 have you ever said it dare you john hackleman that's what i have to say how dare that was the So does anybody tweet back? Do you know where Chuck sleeps now? Well, that's the plan, right? It's going to take a little more time than I thought it would. You know the movie, right? My hall, meaning his car, My vines, meaning his clothes. Yeah. How much fucking bugs do you need to make sheets?

2:26:55 Roadhouse. I loved it. Was he a cigarette smoker? It's healthy for you, good for you. what kind of things are important to take into your body, there's a lot of shit that they know about vitamins. But, you know, B12 for sure gives you energy. in the development of all sorts of aspects of your body. I mean, your body is essentially it's immensely significant.

2:30:29 But I do know that there's a lot of work that I've read where people have studied the benefits of a high alkaline diet. What do you get? Like cows, for instance. boy we do better when we mix it up huh we do better when we have a little bit of i'm a creature But you do a lot of just hunted animals, huh? meat in my house. I don't want to buy store-bought meat. I don't want to buy chicken. I don't want

2:33:09 I just got a wild pig this past weekend. And drive it back? But I also have venison in there still. of frozen salmon so i have some of that left over that's what i want to do man i think that That seems disgusting. called meat eater and he was actually talking about it and he was saying i don't think everybody who's, I hate, I couldn't kill a, I love animals.

2:36:47 You know, Chad Mendez, another guy who's living out there in Sacramento. One of the guys who was like a ski instructor at this place that I went to told me on the way to work, he saw 20 elk, giant bull elk just sitting on the side of the road. I mean, we have deers, but I'm on our property. If you cook it right, wild game is some of the most delicious food you could buy or you could try it if you cook it right live or wild game rather

2:38:31 stop that shit. That's a travesty. Even already lower than we are? There's nothing anybody can do about it. You know, Or drones. I'd like to just pull them over and beat the shit out of them. Just pound knuckles right into their shoulders on both sides. Have they? Yeah. I was like, this is disgusting. And I've asked them, if I'm anywhere and I smell smoke, I'll ask them to put it out.

2:41:34 But I remember the first time I did it, it backfired, So I said, okay. so I had to leave the bar So they'll be outside in front of a place Weed is another example. And I don't find it as offensive. I love it. It's pretty sweet. That's a good hit. Yeah, so that would... He comes back. I got a chance to say hi to him. in the pka days he was one of the few guys that was like super good. Yeah. And really fun to watch.

2:45:38 Like they would throw kicks just because they had to have a minimum amount of kicks. Who Blinky Rodriguez knocked out. Yeah. highlight video of all time really and i don't even know him i just happen to be i just saw it once and i said this is my favorite and i wrote in the comments this is my favorite or something And then that was Benny's system, you know.

2:47:18 I hated growing up in Hawaii, but I loved the fight. Travis Brown, another proud Hawaiian. Hawaii has always been a fight culture. Wait, are you talking about Blinky or Benny? And he lost to Jean-Yves Thériault again later on in his career. to to leg kick kickboxing as well i think i think duke was better but yeah more successful yeah And he's still teaching.

2:49:29 Good old days, my friend. the top yeah well it's such an exciting time for mma you know it's it's still in its infancy it's What do you think is the dumbest rule that they should change? Well, Travis Brown and the Josh Barnett one, that's okay because it's 3 to 9. That's an effective technique, man. Right. but there's two of them. The most sensitive one, period.

2:51:27 At three o'clock I thought Make the bid Do you have anything really important? If people want to get a hold of you shit. I'm on it. I love it. We flew by. All right. See you later. I love you, kids. Economist Peter Schiff. hopefully you will