Joe Rogan Experience #458 — Campbell McLaren Transcript

Transcript

0:00 The Joe Rogan Experience. there's this thing that we got an offer for. and Bob Meyerowitz was the president and owner of it. I was exec producer, you know, co-creator is what they call me now, I was a scrappy little youngster when I was working for you guys. But back then I was just doing kickboxing. We promise not to break your ribs the first couple times.

2:09 You have to do it. Oh, I'm so sorry that didn't happen. But Campbell called me up and asked me out of the blue if I wanted to fight Wesley Snipes. I'm like, okay. When I went to jiu-jitsu, I was 26 years old. It was so humiliating. And then I went from Hickson's in, I guess it was 97, 96? The first feeling I got when I saw UFC 2, watching Hoyce strangle all these people.

5:14 Yeah, you know, I'm a pretty good athlete. Helpless, getting strangled, triangled, armbarred. Yeah, or maybe he thought he could use a sword because people kept saying, does Blade get to use the blade? how anyone could go through that and have the drug problems everyone said he had. Once you go to the pipe, man. But I've heard... And why do they do that? Because you're

7:13 Yes. Like the energy that you put out when you're doing a commentary for like six hours of the UFC. No problem. And, you know, and I know the 20th was pumped up. Yeah. Or it happens and everybody just goes an oh shit moment or worse it happens and Yeah. I think because I'm doing Combate Americas, a Spanish version of the UFC, if you will, and just been around a lot of boxing.

10:02 I mean, everybody's like, oh, Joe Rogan hates boxing. I watch every Showtime event. Well, he was also using the human cockfighting analogy. Thank you very much, sir. it's a stupid saying, every time one of those is on, I tweet it, I watch Pierre Enderand. Everybody loved K-1. K-1 was struggling financially. Well, then right after Glory, Kickboxing, they allow you leg kicks,

12:52 You can't wear pants. is we're seeing them more and more used We had him demonstrate. of the neck and kneeing to the face and kneeing to the body, like using that plum clench and This is it. That's not slow motion. right i mean and so really the basis of the u was always, you know, no rules became, you know, this huge thing. Was that legal in the early one?

16:22 You're blocking. Eyes are sensitive. is a long time strategy in boxing and they actually develop gloves that have the thumb pinned down Goodridge and the Pedro in Brazil, a famous fight. It was like straight up valetudo, no gloves, Well, he was an arm wrestling champ, so maybe he figured that was playing to his strength. grain attacks. 97 isn't back in the day.

18:57 I wanted to wear man pants. So, and, you know, and and you need three month lead time for pay I probably would pay myself to watch it. But Don Gold, who we all know and love and is still at the UFC, he bought 2 and at the same time bought 1. I still think he's cool. He's a karate hero? and i'm trying to explain to him the name of the show right which is not the ultimate fighting

21:35 Yeah, and just showing he was too cool for school. and you sent it through a government process. And it was called the mail, right? Okay, Like a lot of the guys that I think of as paper tigers, right? he came out of an era of kickboxing when they're really when it really was a great thing to watch And it was just a little bit too late in the day for them, right?

23:40 I didn't enjoy working with him. You know, I didn't know about your fighting background when I asked your manager to do it. That's how I found out about it. knows brian i'm sorry if i got the the number wrong but you know and bruce back you know To have Jeff in there, that was good. He was a, yeah, Olympic gold medalist. I mean, good guy, too. So did Blotnick, you know. Yeah, he was a great guy, too. To have Jeff in there, that was good.

26:00 Great guy to be around. He was a great wrestler, too. I was like, that's... It was weird for me, too. Yeah, good barbecue and somewhat friendly town as opposed to Charlotte where they invited me never to return. Wow. Dick Weed, I think. Now it's okay because the war hero said it's okay. You know, because we were kind of intimating that McCain didn't really know anything about the martial arts.

28:54 of folks that don't know this is where it gets weird with john mccain john mccain's wife their a Republican policy. But I think John McCain really wanted a National Boxing Commission. Wait a minute. Okay. was good. I mean, he diddled the you were reading the media, apparently. Was it really that really that big of a deal well maybe it was you because

31:14 But on the other hand, when you're that visible, you know, you're making a lot of people angry. stop the fight. his debut gloves were still not mandatory they were optional some Yeah, you can hit harder with gloves on. Well, that was the most common injury in the early days. And guys use the gloves to finish submissions now, too. It's totally legal to grab your own glove.

34:26 guy you do comedy from a tough guy point of view and you know i think you've probably is this true In history. There's some fucking psychos out there. Joe Silva is a real MMA fan. That's just a regular palm-to-palm grip. It's a good move. The point stands. It's a good move. It's like as he's finishing Josh Thompson's a bad motherfucker. I mean, it's remarkable. But yet you and Joe Silva are still there.

37:10 I'd done commentary for Muay Thai, but I'd never done— on that first show. And then the other benefit was this takes off. Cause I remember when I looked at the very box that had the UFC on it, the And when we were coming up, like I was a Taekwondo guy and, you know, I had friends that This was the thing that everybody always talked about. which is an NBC sitcom.

39:33 fuckhead, because that show But we didn't have the benefit of political backing, so we got moved a lot. seriously judged by people in the industry back then when it was not popular at all. I commiserate. It's much, much, much, much, much more acceptable now. Oh, the Scottish curl as well, right? I was on one of those shows like Best Damn Sports Show or something like that way, way, way back in the

41:40 or hip hop either. Well, there was some shithead Because Anderson broke his leg. I'm not doing that. the Super Bowl which is the most advertiser friendly thing in the planet right so I think dana white because dana white will put shows on well he used to always do that put uh spike shows That's back when Goldberg and who else was doing it by him. I was watching the fights like Cage Side. That's back when Goldberg and – who else was doing it with them?

44:29 And you're a Mormon. were in enough trouble with the cock fighting without making vagina fighting you know we I also like Misha Tate very much. And I think that's a very cool thing. You know, I'm doing this new thing, Combate Americas, if you don't mind me, you know, plugging the show that's on Sunday on Mundos. If you speak Spanish, you speak Spanish.

47:39 That's cool. You know, like Daddy Yankee, who's in the show and someone I've gotten very close to, like you, What are they doing on the ground? It's intense. You know, I'm doing it, the U.S. Hispanic marketic market you know three times the size of canada by the way and people talk about you know we're all going to Nothing bad. Colombians. 21 stations, one city that don't even speak English.

50:31 Does he understand Jiu-Jitsu at all? But he's doing commentary, right? The guys I'm using actually are pretty interesting fighters. And Eddie came in. these fighters. So these guys saw, you know, class acts, world-class fighters. Right. And mixed it in Do they have commentary where the people are fighting? Hmm. says, well, goddamn, son. I'm telling you, she knows more about MMA than I do.

53:04 There's no way that's near her ass. Hold up. That's my ass. Get to that one. There's no way that's your ass. If you've got a thong on, your ass is up in the air. Trying to disinformation? That's why I heard it. Remember, you are so deep in this that you can't imagine anyone not knowing. Take yourself out of this mix and look at it. Someone, And then I'll explain what it is.

54:47 La jaula. That's cool. And I called you last minute. He goes, why don't you stop in and say hello? Pretty girls. The problem, Andrea, is so beautiful that the round car girls kind of look, they didn't Like, will you ever understand that? Some men like boys. The real skinny, skinny look seems like, it's weird that that's like something that women You know what I'm saying?

57:56 Well, we notice. Yeah, and she's a brawny chick. She loves fighting, and she's the perfect person to be the champion in the emergence of women's MMA in the modern era. It's magnificent. She doesn't even hold onto the legs. Their arms aren't as strong. I do pretty good. This is true. That's a lawsuit. Leverage to play with Far down Yeah. I've been doing it longer, and it's more, I don't know, it's more a part of who you are. You know, I mean, it's really, comedy is sort of like a living, breathing thing that you kind of throw it and add to every day.

1:01:56 Yeah. I ran Caroline's around Catch Rising Star and managed Joy Behar and, you know, managed Larry David. No shit. You know, I mean, I was deep in the comedy business. That's how I knew about you. I'm sure. You know, because he was banned. To me, him being a friend, I mean, he catches a lot of shit Because to me, when I was a kid i remember when way too esoteric a conversation but do you remember yak Yakov Smirnoff? Sure. He reminded me a lot of Dice because it was a very similar setup, cartoony character.

1:04:16 Yeah, Dice coming to pay-per-view. Foreman was great. It's called guerrilla marketing. Yeah, shady. It's called guerrilla marketing. No social media. then, that was the reality. I've been in martial arts my whole life, but like I said, I didn't find I used to deliver it. If it wasn't for Richard Sandemir, I'm not sure any of us would be here. I'm not sure.

1:06:54 That's the kind of guy. Whatever. And when you're expressing your point of view Fear Factor. But he did do their Fear Factor. Yeah, that was fucking fun, man. So while we were doing these things, we had to do many, many takes just because people started cracking up. You know, the gloves, the boxing style that a lot of people are used to utilizing in an actual boxing match,

1:09:25 Don't you think a stance is more of a factor? You know, some of them would get eaten up in the UFC because they're leaving themselves so wide open. The one, yeah. Those guys are going to win. The one, yeah. Those guys are going to Now they know no it's different you do it all over again when we were talking about the Wesley Snipes thing that I don't think anybody

1:11:11 a decent purple belt and watch how many times I'm going to duck under his takedown. Sure. Done with MMA. No. Ben Askren is a guy who fought for Bellator. manhandle them on the ground, and punch them in the face, and they can't do shit about it. but so fucking what? When those two get Because you can't get rid of the things that are less exciting. Wait a minute.

1:14:03 Pitchers are dominating, lower the mound. Hold on a second. cheapening what you're selling because what you're selling is a martial art. You're selling, this is This is what we started out trying to do, to to go on record. I think that's a mistake. I think the UFC should have signed him. If I was running things, I would Maybe the heat of the moment. I'm sure.

1:16:10 Because there are some things you can add to the sport, right? is the one that I think it was thrust on him. He had to show heart and he had to work it through I don't agree at all. I'd say brilliant. best opponent, his most skilled factor, man. You know what? I think you really hit on it. Fuck yeah. I believe Askren is just a little bit higher-level wrestler.

1:19:13 the John Fitch one-punch knockout. But the only way you can find that out is dealing with a guy like, and Hendricks, obviously he didn't do this, but if he did do this, If you've got a guy who's a kickboxer who just doesn't have any ground game at all, And after 30 seconds on the ground, they would stand and back up just beautiful knockout striker,

1:21:12 Wait, I'm on the show. I should say That's the thing about a guy like Askren. You're always going to have guys who win and don't win that way, but that way is a way. If a guy can take you down and dry hump you for five rounds, tough shit, and I'm doing commentary on a real thing. If he can hold you down for five minutes of every round, tough shit. That's because he's the best.

1:23:22 Absolutely. It's almost 100 now. A little bit. It was on Spanish broadcast channels because they were taking it Joe, that was something, man. UFC 12 was a tournament. And I look back on it and I'm amazed it happened. I'm amazed those guys did it. There were so many You couldn't make it fair. But they don't fight twice in a day in pro boxing. If you have the highest level of kickboxing in the world and you have a tournament format,

1:26:46 It's ridiculous. That was great. and Baltellini just kept kicking the legs, kicking the legs and chopped them down and then head You know what I think it did back in UFC's early days? You saw his style because the style started to break down pretty much unless you were a Gracie. ...health and safety factor, and, you know, and if he beats him, he gets to the finals.

1:28:48 you're there in Vegas and there's 15,000 people screaming at the top of their So I had Herb and Big John. Hoist was going to win everything you know, of the UFC too, Horrible, horrible story. Where is it, BYU? When you're an elite wrestler, he had a real serious staph infection, too, where he almost lost his arm. You know, he never was not like that.

1:32:13 Listen. Why? You and Art are very different. He wrote an open letter to John McCain saying, you know, you're kind of right. That was kind of a punk move. with you guys anymore. and, you know, stuff like that. I'm just thinking of 12. It was a dozen, like a baker's dozen. You know, it's Joe Silva that's actually been saying I said that. I don't know. You're going to find out. He sent me a tweet once asking me why I never had him on his show, why I won't have him on his show.

1:35:01 He said we. Whatever. And that's what made Giuliani crazy. I mean, Giuliani fought the mafia. Guy caught the mafia. I think he was doing a little camera work. I don't know. Why? what you don't like. If you had anything to do They were not real. Maurice Smith head kicked Conan. Yeah. a lot when it comes to MMA. Yeah, stats, right? Carlson Gracie Jr.,

1:38:44 Gary Myers. Great fights, man. The UFC has sort of taken that on. He kind of looks like almost like too big for MMA. rounds against GSP and still have But yeah, I could see some boxers being built like that. Fuck yeah, by 1,000%. That's the reason why Muhammad Ali, who was so intelligent, used to lean on guys. wears you out. It wears you out. It's way easier to box.

1:41:40 Anytime you're in a fight, I believe humans, you know, fight or flight. To be a target for that long is wearing. Like boxers oftentimes will just train once a day, and maybe they'll run in the morning We were the first. I love that you admit it. Plays soccer, plays a lot of sports. So it's important to talk about this as a sport. But, you know, it is a fight. These are fights. And that's why it's

1:44:50 know, there's an inherent dignity in this because it's a fight, not in spite of it being a fight. You know, if the ball gets past you, it's not that big a deal. or the referee rescues you, You know, you do. You did your best. Well, she doesn't have a dick. No. And it's perfect that it's Ronda and Sarah McMahon because they're two very different world-class athletes. And they deserve it.

1:47:44 Now it's theater. Same with wrestlers. became a professional sport. Maybe. Or maybe it's back to my original point, Yes. it is where it's ingrained in us that you want to see guys fight at least some of the time standing to see you're in a very Bruce Dickinson is It's not nearly as exciting as a Marcelo Garcia strangulation. MMA, leverage, skill, more below the waist.

1:50:59 and he puts him out fucking cold. Who the fuck would not want to watch that on television? Stuff is happening. All the way back. locked in with both hooks in. I am impressed you pulled that one up from memory. But even then, it never happened. But let me ask you this, because now I'm looking for a new audience and maybe an audience that literally would not understand what you just said.

1:53:17 So you go to Fenway. you're calling that up from memory and it exactly is what you were talking about how do we reach a I'm the hardcore fan that gets to talk. And I think that that's important person could appreciate fighting because it's you just watching it is exciting watching that you You know, Bertelsmann, one of the biggest media companies in the world, owned the company.

1:55:51 And down front, there's a gentleman, And I'm there. i admire you and i respect you and i did you know that's why i wanted you in the ufc and i figured You had a great persona. persona in front of the ufc that wasn't talking about human cockfighting And I guess I'm proven right. And you may not like to hear this. I want your audience what, if anything,

1:59:17 Everything is in context promote this as a sport and yet still have. No doubt. Do you think it's good to have one predominant mixed martial arts company? business. What do you mean? for fighters to have other venues. Michael Chandler. Well, I think- And you know they're lame. Well, I don't, they're lame. They're just lame. Well, I think it's... No.

2:01:46 I think that's a good thing. But then you can't figure out God bless. No, go on. Rock on. I still watch Bellator fights. Third one should be good, too. He knows the transitions on the ground. I know it's you. Junior Dos Santos out of Brazil. It's a sport of fighting, yeah. I said basketball. You're dominating people. We're out of it. Twitter is embarrassing. Dana has 2.8 million. I have 2.8. Well, you just started out. You've

2:04:54 C-A-M-P-B-E-L-L-C-O-M. Get a free t-shirt. Oh my god What if this fucking show tanking your whole operation online, It's the first. I mean, they really ask that. No, no, no. This is an insult to my sensei. I mean, he's a weird guy. It was, yeah, it was somewhere in, he had some other involvement with the UFC before that, correct? fights he did luck out that he fought Hoist Gracie, right?

2:07:38 I think he did a lot for, you know, say the community. Ron looks good there. Holy mackerel. of the last dragon no he it was like the next to the last dragon wasn't it no is that he was the Yeah, exactly. Yeah, well, they knew. Look at that beautiful duck under. He's never going to get out of side control. Look at his legs. He doesn't know what to do. Yeah, Hoyce is just academic from here on in. Ron's not going to advance position. He's never going to get out of side control.

2:09:59 and then once you got them down, Show the fight. the back. He slowly but surely Totally was fatigued. Of course. They go, training equipment. Full-on cross. They're very white looking guys. and he comes in and he says and they're standing behind him he's sitting at the chair in front of Yeah. And he goes, I'm in really great shape. I have no desire.

2:13:35 And the guys start going, this is an insult to my sensei. I go, man, I don't know. I didn't get the dynamic. Shirts came off. Did they thought some fucking was going to go down? You should have taken your pants off. He did the marathon. Yeah, no, it's very cool. The guy had guy had mad balls you know he still competes to this Backstage. fucked with everyone from the moment he showed up he's walking around and i said to the state trooper

2:17:35 And Tank did. I think it was the one before we introduced him. I'd say he's Tank Abbott. You can call Tank Abbott Like Ron Van Cleef, he would step up. That wasn't UFC Tank, was it? He couldn't be tougher. You know, he's a darling. I think that's during. But punching power. I think so. But Vitor was 12? One of the most brutal. and was really a creative force in the early days of the UFC.

2:21:28 And also guys who you don't think are going to lose have to lose. Fought Pedro Hizzo in Brazil, you know. His tank. We used to say there was like the Three Stooges only dangerous. That's a nice touch, too. It's hard to tell who he's fighting. You know, you could hit that guy with a brick. I don't think it did anything. Yeah, and Oleg Taktarov. That was a fucking great fight. Oleg. Oh, my God. Oleg. You know, you could hit that guy with a brick.

2:23:16 That wasn't Bellator? but he was already out cold. Because you can't kick a guy, you can't up-kick a guy if a guy has one knee down. The only reason why I think you shouldn't be able to kick a guy on the ground is soccer Basically, it's the same. It's not that people want a predictability, more guys that you can't take down and if if you do take them down, you know, they're going to fucking submit you.

2:26:14 at those things. If you're not good at those things, well, then guys should take you down Well, look at what happened. And I love GSP. But it took a guy like Johnny Hendricks, who was trying to murder GSP, to drag GSP into the deepest water that he's ever been in in his career as a champion. Just give them a beating. Who says that? I think that's what that is.

2:28:05 If I had that kind of hair, I'd That giant afro? That's fucking cool, though. That's badass. I think that's a ridiculous rule. He's got a bigger one now. You have seen so many fights and you're still, you love every one. Like, people always say, like, do you do UFC stoned? Don't think about doing it. I'd have to fucking, yeah, I would really have problems.

2:29:34 like it. I just wouldn't. No, it was 1997, Dothan, Alabama. mma fighters that some of them were elite like vitor was elite even at 19 and when vitor fought So I knew what kind of speed and power he had with his striking. Very accomplished athlete. Pat Smith. Mm-hmm. I mean, you know, he would do okay in kickboxing today. Trey is T-R-A, Telegman. He was 19.

2:32:31 That's the first Vitor. They spelled it differently. I don't know if they were trying to Americanize him or what. And no one knew that he was this elite striker. Vitor, I don't think he's had the career he should have had. And then there was the breakup, the split up between him and Carlson Gracie. That's a fact. Randy Couture, Let's talk more about it.

2:34:48 they know how to suck it up you have to deal with where you're going to war Yeah. If you boxed all day, just constantly boxed all day, just got your fucking head rattled of doing it. The elite of the elite, they blow who was in it for the business of it. Maybe at like 18. poked guys in the eye This video just has that. He's fighting for the fucking title.

2:37:19 Oh, okay. And he has a doctor's exemption in Brazil. and that's the big argument, Ken? Because he had some very tough fights in Pride When he fought in the UFC and heel hooked his first guy and ripped his fucking knee apart. I remember Pat Smith screaming like Ken Shamrock just tears his fucking knee apart. Very, very underrated. And it's... You've got to do the show next season, Joe.

2:40:03 Yeah. You can come on, plug the UFC. And I wish you luck. So I thank you. It made me exhausted every day. No, no. Yeah, because Jeff, your manager, called me, I think gave me a heads up. But how many years ago was that? Yeah. As long as it took. He's a cool actor. Look, and Pat's laying there. Pat was the first African-American rodeo champion. I don't know.

2:43:14 Follow him on Twitter. Just look for it on your local guide. in Wisconsin. Lumosity dot com forward audio book and and vitamins and Campbell McLaren, you're a bad motherfucker. Brian Redband, and Tony Hishcliffe.