Joe Rogan Experience #469 — Dr. Carl Hart Transcript

Transcript

0:00 Joe Rogan Podcast, check it out! It's incredibly important for a bunch of reasons. You look cool as fuck. thank you for having me man social media thing And one of the things was that you did a John Stossel interview where you talking about how don't screw their life up, they don't talk about it. They just go about paying taxes, paying their I can't live my life like that.

2:49 one of those sort of activities. And I'd be irresponsible if I didn't tell them the best Heroin is not different. So if anybody ever tells you anything about I did it once and I was hooked for life or I'm hooked, that's a license to stop listening. But that's not the sort of main point of addiction. But the only one of the major drugs that we use today that can actually kill us from withdrawal, it's alcohol.

5:16 Not fine, but, you know. and then people pay the price, not so much from the drugs, but from the repressive policies. And You can't liberalize drug laws unless you give police officers something else to do. memoir portion, which is deeply personal, and it's not something that I'm so comfortable doing, Was more than a decade ago? traffic violations. You can't go to jail or get a felony charge, but you may be subjected to a fine

9:05 and they have no sort of plans to go another direction because they're happy with their current approach. And so is that those folks who came up with those 30-second spots, it's like with the idea of alcohol and tobacco companies spending money to try to make marijuana illegal is Then they call this a partnership for a Nor will there ever be. is that if they are true and you are an educator and you have that philosophy, which I admire

12:31 twisted, or they don't want to appear to be wrong. And so, I mean, I respect that at some level. like you mentioned about crack cocaine. So I was in the air force over in England, um, 86, 87, 88. began studying drugs as an undergraduate and then went on to And so along the way, I discovered things like, hmm, the majority of people who use these drugs

15:26 different from powder cocaine. Not true. All of these things I discovered along the way that Yeah, let's think about crack cocaine and powder cocaine. Let's just think about the chemical Now, the biological activity of cocaine is at the base. So that hydrochloride portion on the powder cocaine has no biological activity. So he was removing that hydrochloric portion of the salt off of the cocaine base so he could actually smoke it.

18:12 Crack cocaine made it a lot more simple for people to buy it who didn't have the kind of expendable income that was required before the mid-1980s. So essentially they just brought it down to bite-sized portions. He's a real special dude as far as, uh, standup comedians go. He's free basing. what happened was that people were fighting over various new markets. Whenever there are new

20:45 during the whole crack era, unemployment has never been as high as 1982. That's number one. Irvin Howe, his great book, Land of Our Fathers or Home of Our Fathers, But as a result of pursuing that education, I discovered that it was not true. A number of things were already problematic. we think about the law that punishes or punish crack cocaine a hundred times more harshly than

24:23 treatment providers, they all bought into it because you got a problem. and I care about my community and this is the way that I can show it. So everybody had a stake in there's only one reason to do that. And the only reason is that you're trying to stay alive. That's exactly what it is. of the great corporation. Absolutely. And people need to understand the conflict of

27:56 I mean, that's what an actor is. Well, I mean, let's think about what we consider news in the country. Wow, what a day, what a day, what a day. And it's very strange. you know we know about his use and then you think about the hypocrisy of it all and that's the thing that's just disturbing if people just call it like it is and say what it to try to limit the amount of performance enhancing drugs. But unless you're

30:39 coffee? Coffee is a drug. You're kind of drug using. is it still natural if you use you know certain types That's not my concern I think the question is fairness. I mean, it's pretty simple. Absolutely not. But, you know, the thing, and that's fine, Yeah, really, it is kind of a weird thing. don't like too much. It's real weird. Natural is a weird word. Yeah, no, I know. You know,

34:28 and creating artificial things. if that's what your definition of natural is. Yeah, so a drug-free America would mean no aspirin. That's right. it makes it very difficult to have a real debate about it oh, no, no, no. You guys don't know what the fuck you're head. They're already coming to the table with a bunch of bullshit. Right on. I couldn't have said

37:00 Because working for an insurance company is so unglamorous. Nope. it was shocking how mean people Don't you? You must. It was on the Opie and Anthony show. And I was asking him if he ever did mushrooms. This is my sneaky way of asking Michio Kaku if And unfortunately, it makes you question all the things that that guy's an expert in. provable but now you're saying some dumb shit as well i'm with you man i mean um that's one of the

40:35 people that are really smart about one thing. So that you question them about things that they're whether it's you or any other academic, And it waters down all the things that they say they might discover something really fascinating or good. and changed their opinion or had some new information come in. I mean, I think we're certainly right where is it going i'm going this way i'm pro-abortion oh no no no no no no no that's

43:13 Now, when did you do your first research, your first research on drug effects? 1992. Al Gore probably already yeah people are are starting to open But that's a recent phenomenon. 35% of the prison population. You start to look at all of these numbers. I think Americans are empirical evidence helps to really shape the way people think. and, and taking advantage of them at the very least, it's a very poor engineering of the

48:18 And now I think people are understanding that we have our own social injustice happening right before our eyes. that they were going to treat marijuana and then the way they did treat it which is very different it was very bush-like it was it And so I think a similar thing kind of happened under the Obama administration. But they have said they're going to allow it to happen.

51:20 And it's way easier to do that than to knock on some trailer that's got smoke coming out of it in the middle of the desert, and some dude comes out with a machine gun, be in touch with you. They say that they'll review your case, that charges will be pending. They And the people that work there often quit. It's not yours. to have the conversation that it has to be a shift. Like you're saying,

54:01 We can use our police forces. something or why not tell the public who is more likely to be susceptible to obtaining that type That is entertainment. And the goal of what he's disseminating making the tide go in and the tide go out He's fucking with you. Absolutely. they're all playing a role right right they bring in so-called experts but they think that they're

56:55 in interviews it'd be the most ridiculous shit ever but somehow or another you're allowed to see Yeah, it's hilarious. I mean, if you don't go out and get your news on your own, That's why I'm a college professor. And the young people today, I mean, you see it on Twitter. I see it on Twitter. Some of the comments and the statements The people that are set in their ways,

58:55 yourself? You're a good guy. Like, why are you talking like that? That's ridiculous. You would versus them. You know, he's got that And we go into us versus them mode. If this is what they've done always their entire career, and then all of a sudden the laws change and they have to adjust. I'm sure they are. I just would be concerned I assure you, I don't think it'll take a long term.

1:01:57 It's kind of a perfect storm, right? What a freak fucking group of humans we are. when you have drugs everywhere you look but but at least i'm encouraged that i see this shift in What do you feel has been the biggest resistance or the biggest hurdle that you've had to overcome? And so it all kind of combines it all. And my major thing is that if I can just get people to focus on the evidence, the real evidence,

1:04:34 Which had been used for thousands of years. And they shut that shit down so quick. marijuana legal. But even though hemp has been non-psychoactive and used in this country legally when we made marijuana illegal. It was a time when the country didn't really want to have because I don't know all of the history related to it. One of the things that I do know is that

1:07:49 to be shown to parents it was purchased to this movie yeah but also understand now, by this time, when the film really became big, It really kind of goes along with what we've been saying the whole time. That's disturbing to hear for some people, No. Apparently, Florida, since this documentary, has been forced to clean their act up. heroin. And then people would do it under

1:10:46 He's just driving around all day with a backache. you get this crackdown so severe that people who are in pain who actually need the medication of potential risks and benefits. And oftentimes it's a one-sided story. And that bothers me. there are far more good doctors out there who are trying to be responsible than Florida pain victims trapped by prescription crackdown.

1:14:23 Number one, he was on essentially heroin. and a guy who's a mouthpiece for the right-wing machine, was like an anti-drug guy. the Rush Limbaugh-type characters, the people that really are putting on an act. People like what he does. I just will parrot right back at you. Yeah, I would have to do the research here. Let's see if it's true. What's the LD50?

1:17:29 That's a why and be fine. marijuana, alcohol, heroin, it protects you from some of the toxic effects. So you can really push That's fascinating. So the LD50 rate will absolutely change with those who are tolerant to it from continued use. being one of the few that if you physically addict to it and you quit, didn't that, isn't that what So if someone out there is addicted to alcohol, how do they kick alcohol?

1:20:31 seizure activity and those sorts of things. What is the physiological effect of the alcohol It's partly, it's part of alcohol withdrawal. life, the time at which half of the drug leaves the body, is only about an hour. It certainly depresses certain neurons, a number of neurons. So like when you think about it, when you are anxious, At high dosages, it does shut down certain functions of the brain. Like at certain low dosages, it can be beneficial. That's high dosages. It does shut down

1:23:11 But it's interesting, though, when you think about the idea that this is one of the most popular, if not the most popular, recreational drug in the world. later, you're drunk. We don't need If I had to say, should it be legal or illegal, immediately. And so when you're at a party, you don't have to wait for the onset of the effects and everybody come and sell mushrooms you'd give them the mushrooms and be like come back and hang

1:25:52 Yeah, I couldn't think of another drug either. If you were doing marijuana, the issue would be you can help people be safe. But alcohol, don't have so much worry about it. The thing that we how much people are taking, you know, like all of these drugs. One of the things I try and point out, the most important thing about drugs is dose. should be adjusted? What are your thoughts on that? No, I think they're fair. I mean, they're

1:28:52 whatever, and then you get some dude who's just hitting it hard every night and he's only had But you're absolutely right. Other than the hand-eye coordination drills. they pass a sobriety test, then you're less confident in what that blood level means. You know, if people have practice with the test and they know how to do it really well, then maybe they're not impaired driving as well.

1:31:34 I think that that's the thing that contributed to this. I'm from Miami. either wound up dead from murder or in jail for corruption like they were just crazy and making That was coke money. Yeah. a big crackdown in the 70s on marijuana. And then they said, well, we've got to figure out a way to get it to people that can't afford to buy a brick. Yeah, no, absolutely. Some industrious dealer uh, cook cocaine and produce mass, produce it in ways

1:35:41 The person could have had a great idea and probably meant well. I don't know. I don't know. The person could have had a great idea and probably meant well. I don't know. But it certainly doesn't seem to be playing out as about these drugs. What happens? Let's see if you can replicate it. Let's see if you can extend it. Let's see if other people can

1:37:07 I thought I wanted to publicize it because I thought what we were doing with drugs Has anybody ever said, I challenge you on your ideas? But there have been people who may say that they have some trouble with the conclusions that I draw. It's always been the propaganda. I mean, the data. Yeah, that is so important, and that's not what's been thrown around.

1:39:56 So in this case, what I'm trying to do is make sure we avoid the exchanges of ignorance a fine. But the one thing that's important here is that they don't go to jail everybody in the society has the same opportunities as those guys. we would charge people. Well, we set limits to make sure that we don't become excessive. For So you're saying we can't handle the truth, essentially.

1:43:46 support that conclusion, but that's what people are going to be drawing from those data. And so Whereas for folks who don't know, heroin and cocaine are both Schedule II, Cocaine is Schedule II? Right. So your your your your your puzzle look just kind of explains or it typifies Americans drug education because you were right when you said, but it's heroin.

1:46:02 Oh, it gets squirrely, doesn't it? you don't even study this. Because there's medicinal cocaine. Yeah. So let's think about it. If you've ever gone to a dentist, was a weird feeling. Like I wasn't high, you know, it wasn't like a cocaine high, but I was like, that have these insane LD50 rates So public opinion and public the tide, which way the tide is going is very important.

1:49:18 in order to see marijuana withdrawal, you have to have people who smoke the drug every day, withdrawal is a huge one. Like oftentimes it's connected to being as bad as heroin. and you're like what are we doing what the fuck is going on here like maybe that's the better way But eventually the body resets and goes back to its homostasis, its normal sort of balance.

1:52:31 uh, that the hangover effect is a withdrawal from alcohol effect. Yep. I'd always thought And then your body was just adjusting to the drug being there. We think about heroin. these overactive mechanisms now causes someone to have diarrhea because it was trying to get of the drug in the body that the body He was a scientist. Yes. Well, natural What's going on there? How are they able to do

1:56:47 Well, this is just from what I got from that movie. you want to get someone addicted to a drug like tobacco or nicotine, is that you want do it twice, but you can't do it every week. You can't do it like every day for a couple weeks. If anybody out there have taken Vicodin, Percocet, Oxycontin, all of those drugs, you've taken those drugs for pain or whatever reason.

1:59:31 Yeah, those are the toughest questions that people ask me, right? A lot of times people become addicted on these drugs I gave you this anecdotal story about this guy. He was always looking for an excuse his whole life. He is who he is. But we don't get to figure out what's really going on when you simply blame the drug. So there are two crimes that are committed in that case. We don't get to figure out what's going on

2:02:04 He was self-medicating. There was a psychiatric issue in his family and it was not Bill O'Reilly and you know disseminating the actual facts and the data and doing actor to read his book no i know that's whack it's whack. It's your book. I'm going to make sure It's got to happen. Whoever it is out there And thank you, man. we do my podcast, next is Duncan's, next is Chris's, and we just keep doing it.

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