Joe Rogan Experience #490 — Andreas Antonopoulos Transcript

Transcript

0:00 Joe Rogan Podcast, check it out! It was fun having you on before and a lot of feedback. That was the one that was done through Bitcoin? exchange than as a store of value. It can do amazing things in terms of velocity, just getting and it's fun to be able to connect with people that way. down. So how do you figure out, like when you make taxes, do you do it at the

2:53 That seems like if people were smart, Dude, always thinking. It's going to get complicated. So unless you were able to bring If you want to play games like that, The shit's... What did you do? Now, there are some investors, sophisticated investors, who have a broad portfolio and who may want to take a small part of that portfolio and put it into a very high volatility investment in order to churn some returns out.

5:26 You would say you'd buy up a bunch of Bitcoin, But the problem is you never know where high is, will only get you burned. Well, spoken heard the earlier podcast, explain Which everybody knows, and no offense Yeah. And then it became In the early days of Bitcoin, when you were trading locally among individuals, there was no price discovery mechanism.

7:55 Because keep in mind, at the time, Well, wow. I'm so behind the So last year, this time, it jumped from about $100 to $266 and then dropped again down to $50. and then it dumped all the way down to 500, the China market opened up And then, but maybe we won't ban it And it's been a roller coaster. money in the exchange. 100% of it? Well like 85-90% of it. Oh my god. So someone

10:25 he was a really good fighter too fought Anderson Silva and Cage Rage I mean high level guy um beating them up after he did the bank job. I mean, this guy's a fucking maniac, right? Yeah, I think. And there wasn't a manhunt Yeah, using the loopholes. I mean, you've got to be L33T, right, to pull that shit off. Let's be super conservative and say it's $100 million worth of cash.

13:14 It's about records and forensic accounting and analysis and drawn-out cases where they try to figure out what happened. Yeah, and actually the dollars are gone too. is that individuals control them. Mt. Gox did not have individual Bitcoin accounts for the users. When you put one person in charge of the money, they steal the money. Or they're sloppy with their security and somebody else robs them.

16:21 away of the control of the individuals, but then didn't have any of the regulatory institutions that we traditionally have in banking. like really really bad management a really bad coding really bad technology use just gross A guy with a dumb fat face like that, and if you have a dumb fat face and you're smart, Well, he actually bought it Mark Karpalos,

17:41 I never met him, So now you had a price. Starts out good. but could exchange various currencies for Bitcoin. hundreds of millions of dollars. I would probably fuck it up I'm not going to go as far as say poor bastard because there's a good chance that he hurt a lot of people very badly. paying for the previous loss by bringing in new customers and trying to stay ahead of

20:45 What happens is they take a bet, they lose on that bet, and then they try to cover up the fact that they lost by bringing in more people. by making a bigger mistake, and then it snowballs. He's like, you invest. Where my school buddies were running a little candy pyramid scheme. But they actually drew it on the And it was basically a pyramid scheme

22:43 find out where that guy is now? and then not fall for it again. in a closed, controlled environment. You should put your money on it. This is based on the information we have right now. but we don't know if those losses occurred because he lost keys to Bitcoin We're going to find out the answers to that because Bitcoin uses a public ledger and there's forensic evidence sprinkled in the Bitcoin transaction ledger that allows us to track exactly what happened.

25:16 and you can't track it. to figure out where that stuff went. Mt. Gox to acquire some of the failing banks, Hold on. He might be one of the few examples of bankers going to jail. Or it happens for those who steal money from very, very rich people. No, he's in Japan right now. he must be looking over his shoulder. And then the other culture, which is, well,

28:12 I don't know. and a lot of people who lost a lot of money, So a business like, say, move it in there sell it for dollars move the dollars out it's just in and out right versus dollars and then they move okay now um how much can you actually store on your phone like your Yeah, that would be a supremely dumb and bad idea to do. Yeah, you can actually make a whole tree structure of wallets.

31:24 So, for example, on a daily basis, they will sweep 95% to 98% of the Bitcoin off into wallets that require three out of six people to come together to unlock them with the keys separated on separate devices. You can have good security practices, and all of those We don't know, but in either case, that it was the result So this guy So he's always lived in Japan.

32:56 That's the good thing. So he's under indictment from America and from Japan? Most likely. That's that's what we're trying to change about financial So for example, if you've got a startup and they're raising money in Bitcoin, you don't People make very poor decisions. in place controls so that no single person can run away with money. And then you're going to

36:12 and get in on the market quick? which was at first the telecommunications companies you know, two decades ago and created whole new businesses And as soon as that starts happening, there's almost a stampede because until the first one breaks, structures within the banking industry. It's going to make it difficult for them to charge because they don't have an advantage.

39:39 Yeah, that's fascinating how people, some people just don't want to buck the trends. do you think they would realize They're not even in your industry. says Jamie. Jamie's on top of that shit. So for your listeners too, And that has been true now It's a matter of whether your industry will still exist in a decade. You know, long distance calls don't exist.

43:05 $10 worth in today's money. I would sit in a payphone and my family would know what time I Isn't that crazy? Skyping with someone while they were walking down the street, Walking down the street through a cell phone connection, obvious to the to the cynical and paranoid um first of all I think they are worried about this strange technology that they don't

45:41 Whenever you spend money on buying an app or buying something inside an app, Then why give Apple 30% cut Now 80 something percent of the smartphones are Android phones? You could take a shower with it listen to music you could put a fucking And also I found Amazon MP3, which is just as easy to use, if not easier, than iTunes. But it does ask you to accept

48:08 forever. Just give me a checkbox that says to buy movies. I use it on my buy movies. I use it on my laptop poster from led zeppelin in 1968 69 and we were like could you fucking imagine But this happens again and again in technology. And I clicked it. a very limited set of hardware, a very The control situation that gave you the advantage at first starts lagging behind innovation

51:04 I mean, we're going to see much more openness in music. It's 52% Android and 41% is Apple. It says 81%, man, on CNET. I was in Vancouver this weekend, and I had to use my Android phone completely, All Samsung does is add a bunch of crap to their phones It's just a piece of shit. All the apps are perfect for it. People forget lenses and things like that, which make a huge difference.

53:48 you motherfucker. I think there is a better one out there. but it's not meaning that it's a better product. What's the difference? So if you're with, say you want a picture of Joe Rogan, you just sit there, hold down That's all you have to wait. And this humongous iPad's coming out. That, to me, is gigantic. Why am I doing this? For me, it's a memorization thing.

56:40 This is just for texting. Yeah but flakiness and weird security problems to the carefully controlled... better control and quality and security at first. So here's the thing. That's been happening in It's more versatile. that we saw with the internet versus telecom networks, but it seems like a highly rated site. Even though they could go bigger, And even that, with such a small device that's in your hand, I would imagine that there's a lot of blur.

1:00:30 and how fast it was Or when you used to need You've reached saturation. the camera got better, it got quicker, It moves better. It has more features. God, I have one, too. Just get used to it. It's got a flash. The camera why don't they just copy what works? Do you know the specifics? I think like how you unlock this, Yeah. one come out. And then the bigger

1:03:45 Like, we make 5-inch screens. It's pretty fucking slick. Apparently, the sound on these is incredible. Yeah, or ultra-pixel camera, rather. But four megapixels sales, especially point and shooters, are I guess that technology you were talking about, like blurring the foreground, I just think that what HTC has decided to do is try to do it with two different cameras at the same time.

1:07:05 because depending on which carrier you get it from, to get everything done but i mean So I have a combination of operating systems here. When are they just going to or XP, and we give up on Windows You guys are Windows, and you don't sell computers? Let me talk to that guy. They have laptops. email and stuff like that. going in, and my kids were playing with, like, one of the

1:10:05 Stop moving. environments but then the quality during the day is to be just left to be desired so the the what So I think the reason they're putting two cameras Well, do you remember when they had that for a while? It wouldn't work on a computer. Is that an English word? I don't know. I'd rather be on the cutting edge and be dealing with something that's rough around the edges

1:12:53 Yeah, I agree with you in a lot of ways. Windows and Apple, you know, as far as like Apple phones and, you know, the whole idea, So as I said, you know, the straightforward one is that it introduces risk in an environment that is deliberately conservative about quality, security and control over the environment. to add them. So right now, there's a pretty steep learning curve. If you want to understand digital cryptocurrencies, just the name alone, like cryptocurrencies, sounds so awfully geeky and weird.

1:15:37 And you get into all of these things where you've picked a name, that name evokes a thought, The terminology is wrong. so the thing with the at sign, You get two things. One, There was more than one and now there's more too. There's new ones that have been reintroduced They'll get pulled immediately. and find them. but it's fully functional. And you still have to use Apple's browser

1:18:35 app like experience it doesn't feel like a web page it feels like an application then all of the stuff they're selling through Bitcoin will now be sold through Bitcoin instead of dollars. It gave people better communication tools and different communication and you look at these rough edges, and you look at these difficulties in the system, And now that's a multi hundred billion dollar company, right?

1:21:27 So right now, Bitcoin is difficult to use. So each one of these problems, each one of these rough edges, And we're beginning to see that now as all of these startups are rushing in And we're getting there. and that's obviously happening. and one of the big issues Right. It's Wi-Fi. It's been a while. added to the core protocol, the Bitcoin protocol, back in November of 2013, officially, and would work. So when you send Bitcoin to someone,

1:26:05 Multisig allows you to build wallets that require multiple signatures. Here's the signature of the other spouse. I'm going to sell you, Joe, something. Your signature, my signature, and an escrow party, a third party that works as an I persuade the arbitrator that you're cheating, Yeah. whether you like it or not. If you like the arbitration rules of that group,

1:29:32 Some of them are specialized in real estate, and some of them are specialized in auction You didn't have a choice but to use their arbitration. something with Bitcoin, you can now use escrow. And this is all within the last time you were here? And then you give the third signature to a service that checks every transaction for risk. four of your social i want to check this whatever you can you can reintroduce some of the fraud prevention systems that banks do.

1:32:57 Yes. They're amazing. They're the nicest guys ever, too. You shouldn't really start Bitcoin now, right? the minimum is $20 or something like that worth. that amount. People don't do that. the dump with a fine-tooth comb, 7,500 Bitcoin on it or something like that. It could be a game. People are going to start, and already we've seen this, I know that there's programs out there that could just do

1:36:46 and then. What do you got on your watch? something that people like, my watch buzzes Can you get like a negative shock if you say something stupid? And I'm just checking to see what number should I give out? Better, actually, because it doesn't reveal any information about where you are or who you are or any of that. they held it up and it said, pay for my college

1:38:25 wearing a sandwich board around the city if you want. Do you know what it is? a big fan of the Dick Tracy watch. I'm enjoying it a lot. sent me one too. Is that going to work? You can just copy that, put it in an email. mention which is based in pensacola florida where they've made it pretty much illegal to be homeless. The point is that's evil. That's a shame

1:41:46 There's a lot of charity. The barcode? It's already happening. What if I put that image online? address. It's the same number over the screen. Oh, that's the only way to do it? You press the power button and the home button at the same time. I'm going to send this image. because it's lagging behind. Hmm. I just Instagrammed it, which means it also went to my Twitter and my Facebook.

1:45:12 we found the creator of Bitcoin And a lot of people in the Bitcoin space The math is what matters, not who it is. of the style of, it's beginning to pour in. I'm counting on you. That's great. Horrible diseases while he's been down there. Okay, so the... Yeah, no, they most certainly are. Charity happening in real time. What are you doing? Not like a few Like a lot of them that are like 20 bucks. That's crazy. Yeah, like there's a lot of them, man.

1:48:40 On Samsung, you have to hold it down, You know that? You don't even have a task manager, bitch. About that guy. There's no doubt in anyone's mind at this point. by really crazy, dangerous people Right. Not in this country, not in California. You have to show deliberate harm, and he has to show damages. It wouldn't work. started with one Dorian a Bitcoin address of vanity address and I said

1:51:58 like exactly what you saw just now. if you wanted to watch. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm not that stupid. Yes. It will be, no, actually March 14 issue of this year. I want to hug you, a little part of this world I can also contribute touched. Yes, it was. That's so cool. Is that his Bitcoin address, Brian? Nope. That's sad What does this gentleman do for a living?

1:57:14 But And it is cool that the Bitcoin community came through. Do you think they knew that this guy, I mean, the purchase of Newsweek. It's a stinker. Their first edition You can't push a guy's fucking home address out there and pictures of him. especially in the midst of all this chaos Yeah, they're saying it was worth insane amounts of money, right?

2:00:05 You mean he might have that much? Is there a Satoshi Nakamoto? Why not? I usually say she's at one of the conferences, so make sure you treat all the ladies right And I think the most likely explanation None of it has been moved. a bunch of cars for Bitcoin. And Virgin Galactic uh seats on their flights He thinks it's kind of a goof to spend $100,000 to go like a little higher than a plane and look down and then drop back down again.

2:02:31 visionary. You can only go there for like a minute, and then you've got to come flying back down again, right? Zero-G sex. But it would be frozen instantly. Yeah, you don't want to have sex with zero G. No worries. same day to u.s dollars so you don't get any exchange rate risk and what's the difference I'm going to have to decipher it. is weird in terms of media and regulation it's been good news bad news good news bad news bit

2:05:39 It's so true, right? The Politburo. There was that guy, Vincent the Chin Gajanti, or however you say his name, who would walk around the neighborhood pretending to be crazy. And there was public hits and all this crazy shit. is the elephant in the room, and that's Gazprom. things. And Gazprom produces most of the gas in the world, so much so that they supply all of

2:08:49 basically say, because that's the only form of cheap energy you have. dominate portions of the world. And it just seems like some shit is about to happen. it's a combination that creates upheaval It's a really interesting time to live in because there's so much change going on. Corvette. I think that's certainly the best way to do it. You can't just sneakily post that.

2:11:46 already in in many cases for women to be able to keep control of their money so it can't be stolen because I'm a pasty middle-aged male But I raised, and I'm pretty proud of that photo to get them away from people who are exploiting them or abusing them badly. And one of the reasons why, I think, What are you looking up? I'm waiting for Red Band to

2:14:14 he's a sweetie he's nice to everybody No, you can't. But in your particular case, If they're monitoring your laptop, they already know that. D-O-R-I-A-N. He said that unless you are very careful in the way you use Bitcoin And so people say that Bitcoin is anonymous, but in fact, it's not. Or I have a donation address that I publish. So I have to take some basic privacy precautions

2:17:59 That's the thing that allows you to sign transactions. That is the whole basis. used across all of the other industries. and you can't see the keys that are underneath. giving them an understanding of what this is all about. I just posted his Bitcoin address along with an article explaining what went wrong and how he's because they finally were able to understand it. And I'll give you two stories. A month ago,

2:21:04 for lunch in a transit area in a restaurant. I'm not used to being seeing that episode. And I was just blown away. I mean, this is like I'm sitting down for lunch in a transit area my driver's license and rental ticket This story has repeated a dozen times for me. And for me, that was a wonderful opportunity. what Bitcoin is. It's cutting out all the steps that are unnecessary between human beings

2:23:11 We have a bunch of new t-shirts in now, and we have JRE t-shirts that are the logo that's on my Twitter page. Is that on iTunes as well? motherfucker. Yes, you can. Yep. He's on Monday. Thanks to our sponsors. DeathSquad.tv for ticks. Close. And they do shows there on a regular? Go to DollarShaveClub.com forward slash Rogan. Thanks to Onnit.com. Big kiss.