Joe Rogan Experience #502 — Dr. Rhonda Patrick Transcript

Transcript

0:00 Joe Rogan Podcast, check it out! Yeah, actually, i could have gone a Well, its nemesis is the dynorphin opioid receptor, what it does is it upregulates the mu opioid receptor so that after you get that anxiety feeling, you have a better endorphin rush because you upregulate the mu opioid receptors, which bind to the endorphins, the feel-good ones, and you actually become sensitized to them.

2:22 There's just an amazing feeling like life is incredible. I mean, it's painful while you're doing it, but the more pain you experience, the better the rush. It's the Yeah. I mean, there's complex mechanisms and things going on in your brain, here. It's like you need to have some negative in order to feel some extra positive. Right. different things. So a little bit of stress activates this whole stress response mechanism

5:36 I was hand-waving. after I work out. That's kind of well-known where exercise induces the growth of new brain cells. the way I think of it, is that when you grow those new brain cells, like when you're exercising, Well, you actually change those synapses and some of them go away. there's things like, you know, forgetting things, but so that you can learn new things. I mean,

8:57 And it's just because I've had too many experiences. And that's, like really, and specifically in episodic memory. the day you find out that kennedy got shot or the day 9-11 happened or the day like extreme events What's the mechanism of action of MDMA? I always forget. I never had a desire to take it again, although I had a very positive experience with it because the downside the next day was just brutal.

12:45 there seems to there's like a negative feedback so what would happen then is the next day you're Yeah, it's listed in Wiki under the long-term effects that it causes a downregulation of serotonin reuptake transporters in the brain. have to be really careful and not take a bunch of tryptophan or, you know, because then you A neurotransmitter in the brain.

15:10 But so there's two different genes that convert tryptophan into 5-HTP. tryptophan hydroxylase 2, which is the brain form. And that's found in the dorsal raphe part, And when they respond to serotonin, they proliferate and grow more. So a theoretical paper means I didn't actually do any experiments on mice. which is a telltale sequence that vitamin D, when vitamin D binds to a vitamin D receptor,

17:58 abdropipinidroxylase had different response elements. recent CDC report that came out said that one in 68 children have autism. I mean, it's been, with this theory that low vitamin D during pregnancy and also during neonate when you're a young child can lead to serotonin deficiency in the brain. So vitamin D3, the way it works is you can make vitamin D in your

20:43 into that active steroid hormone in your kidneys, It was changing the structure of the way the brain was developing. But what I did was I kind of just took a step back And then the whole gut inflammation thing, autistics have this, So it's, it's pretty interesting. So 5-HTP actually bypasses the tryptophan hydroxylase part. So if you're converting the serotonin immediately in your gut, then it's not going to get to

23:30 Is it a myth, the tryptophan turkey thing, that correlation between eating turkey and for the branched-chain amino acids Another thing, the T-cells, I want to get back to that real quick Yeah, well, there's a lot of issues. look into after this. Yeah. That seems like we have some, we have a supplement that we sell It was originally, when we first came up with it, allegedly, my friend and partner allegedly likes to do ecstasy, allegedly.

27:10 supplements. And he's also been a freak about vitamins and nutrients, like his entire life, Well, they've found recently, like within the last year actually showed that in live mice, the pineal gland is producing dimethyltryptamine. but they're trying to do more studies on human beings, more accurate studies, and trying to come up with more accurate ways of testing, especially during different stages,

29:36 I mean you can get there right now. one produced by your own brain so it's it's really weird is it produced like is is it like from So, you know, I'm just, I'm wondering if it's very similar in structure to melatonin, would it have any role in that as well, circadian rhythm? mind and the studies that they've done connecting various hormones and things like whether it's

31:30 I think they're probably the most ignorant about dimethyltryptamine. It's impossible to get the sources illegal because dimethyltryptamine is in like a thousand different plants. You know, my cat, well, she passed away recently. find these DMT rich plants and they chew them and eat them and have psychedelic experiences and Large cats like jaguars eat leaves.

34:32 Yeah, look at this jaguar. so that if you consume grass And then here we have this issue with autism and autism has to do with inflammation in I had a specific mechanism that explained it. nice and reinforcing. But so that's, you know, that was, that was my goal is to kind of just And he was like, look, I really like what you're doing. Um, uh, vitamin D is important for telomere length. Ooh, to talk about that too oh totally and then if you scroll

38:37 So then you scroll down more and it shows a telomere because it actually, DNA repair enzymes are regulated by vitamin D as well. So it has to be released into the bloodstream to get converted into active hormone. People like that. or you know it was really cool so um where is it on your website if you're looking for it um i think Yeah, totally. because my friend Bobby,

41:02 So I go on to Google, I Google TA 65 and there's degenerative diseases. In one study, mice genetically engineered to lack functional But let me explain. where your DNA is. And at the end of these chromosomes are your telomeres. The problem bit shorter telomere because there was that little gap that didn't get filled. And this is happening And the problem is, is that you most of our cells, with the exception of our stem cells and our lymphocytes, don't express this enzyme called telomerase, which is able to actually rebuild the telomeres.

45:04 immortal. you're like, boom, okay, we're going to keep you going now. They're usually just sitting around waiting until they have to come out and divide and make more of a certain cell type, that telomerase. those biological effects. So the tissues become younger, the stem cells, you know, are, you know, is yeah if you click on the one with the two pictures of the women um by the time they reach

48:33 And then after 15, she's 40 years old in that right-hand picture. Right. Or 90. Yeah, she looks pretty old. you don't have a lot of inflammation, It's going to help, you know, Yeah, you have to come. Kind of. I don't want those or macrophages or things like that. breaks, I think we talked about this a little bit last time. So just normal living. Here's aging for

51:48 And I talked about those enzymes that are magnesium dependent and how magnesium is important for DNA repair enzymes. their strand breaks. And then I have this because I think that they're not getting enough magnesium, I'm not actually measuring their magnesium. more of this damage, their capacity to repair this damage is impaired. And it makes sense to me.

53:47 That's right. So I went on this whole, so that's aging, that's part of aging in a nutshell. And remember the exact doses, but they did a dose response. And they looked at a couple of things. length, vitamin D is one of them. Vitamin D, the way vitamin D affects telomere length is totally the lead investigator on that, I'm very familiar with her work. I was really close to doing a

56:45 Their tissues are aging quicker. And they gave those mice, like third or fourth generation mice, TA65. And what they found And personally, I think there's always that risk. It's like, well, if you have a lot of reactivating telomerase in those cells then How the fuck could you ever know that? precancerous cells to full-blown cancer because now there's immortalizing them and letting

59:38 But I've heard that that's horseshit too, The acid alkaline myth. What I've read that's counteracting this is that if you did alter the I mean, it's like all of a sudden you start activating your neutrophils. It's proponents of the alkaline diet have put forth a few different theories about how acidic diet harms our health. The most ridiculous claim, more ridiculous claim, is that we can change the pH of our blood by changing the foods we eat and that the acidic blood causes disease while alkaline blood prevents it.

1:02:32 does have serious health consequences. However, this state of acidosis is caused by pathological You know, I just don't know enough about that stuff, Yeah. By the way, this is, apparently this myth busting is, there's a bunch of different websites that say that it's horseshit. you're inducing an insulin response, What? That doesn't even make any sense.

1:06:02 that you know i did a lot of work manipulating cancer nutrients and cancer cells in grad school. And, you know, getting if I if I had for your lipid membrane. So there's a lot of... Just taking away the glucose is one I was talking about the folic acid, you know, stuff because he was talking about that specifically. Oh, the, the doctor, that stuff you're much more likely to be unhealthy. If you're much more likely to be unhealthy,

1:09:16 I saw on your Twitter, you posted something, I don't know, a couple of days ago about kale It's one of their natural defense mechanism against bugs. So here comes this whole, oh my god, bind to the same transporter because you're not, you know, so if it's't low in iodine, wouldn't be a problem because, I mean, it's a well-known fact that these things.

1:12:57 it depends on what you're defining as bad for you. And most… You almost swore. There's, there's chemicals in these plants that are, yes, they're, you know, are genes that when there's something's wrong, So all this stuff about poorly researched, bad conclusions. makes sense is that only if it's such a low competitive binding, that it's not, you know,

1:16:08 What does it? a very small amount that doesn't get in but if you're not if you're getting your iodine and Well, that was the one that Dave Asprey had talked about. The oxalic acid, I think there's a little bit in kale, but it's mostly in spinach. So I was looking in the literature and I found a really cool experiment done by this Japanese group where they took spinach, raw spinach.

1:18:19 and they measured calcium levels in their blood and bone and also in their kidneys. things like that, and there was no difference between boiling or not. So what do you mean, like eating it every day, all day, for a year? And I put a nice amount of it. And I haven't convinced myself yet. It kind of, it's, but it's activating stress response pathways that are ultimately, it's

1:21:59 plants, kale, broccoli, whatever, and them being something that you should avoid consuming unless you boil them, that's just not... there's a study um that you could find on a pub med site about oxalic oxalate nephropathy in a kidney biopsy should prompt an evaluation for causes of renal oxalosis. Actually, single cause for 36 patients and at least two causes for 29 patients.

1:24:19 Yeah. Maybe so. I make smoothies for the most part. does bind to these metal ions, it chelates them and, you know, it absolutely could accumulate I think maybe just don't be a dumbass and go way, way, way overboard. Yeah. but there's bacteria in your gut called putrefaction bacteria and i call that eat really really large doses of red meat like what happens is you're giving those bacteria heme

1:28:24 I guess the meat, the high meat diet. That's not good, right? No, it's what gives red meat the red color. it's very difficult to figure out who's farting on an airplane it's one of the reasons why people It does. Paul maybe? 1942 And Callan, of course, never wants to be wrong, Oh, so you convinced him? Please. Yes. at things is unhealthy it's not it's not correct i don't know if that's what this guy's doing i

1:32:38 So this Off It fucking thing just drove me up a wall because I started reading all the people that call bullshit on this guy Like he, he really doesn't like this guy. That's clear to me. then you're going to look at some clinical endpoint, like heart attack, or mitochondrial trial for a certain X amount of time, and you look at the effect on heart attacks, and you don't have

1:35:34 and whatever you gave them, they're still severely deficient, or you're going to have people that And when you're doing nutrition research, where you're looking at the effects of vitamins and minerals, So we're talking about a different start point right it's not it's not For one, this is going to determine the dose that you give them. everyday diet that you can't look at the two of them the same way that the drug may help people

1:38:29 So when you're randomizing them into two different populations, you don't know. some response. No, you're taking vitamins and mineral supplements because you're not getting Starting off with a population of people that has enough vitamin D, and you're trying to look at the effects of vitamin D on cancer incidence. That should be the conclusion, not, oh, vitamin D doesn't affect cancer incidents, which is what people tend to do.

1:40:31 control trials. Most of the time, they started off with people, didn't measure anything at all Right. And their other circumstance showed a slight improvement with vitamins. guess what? vitamin A family, this beta carotene gets cleaved because they have oxidative stress and stuff going context where, you know, there can be problems with taking high doses of beta carotene for that

1:43:33 And the second example, he says, is because you need pro-oxidants around in your body to prevent cancer cells. for about 25 or so different proteins that are one of them being glutathione peroxidase and synthase and all these different antioxidant genes. And it's been shown to selenium, high but they actually have separate functions. So the alpha tocopherol is a very potent antioxidant.

1:45:48 into your cells. It's hard to transport proteins in and out. It just, it screws up stuff. So it's lipid membranes, they damage proteins in your body. So having both alpha tocopherol and the tissues and in your bloodstream. But the problem is, is that when you take really high levels of prostaglandins. So what they did was they gave men either alpha-tocopherol, 400 IUs, so 10 times the RDA, maybe even more than 10 times, and selenium.

1:48:45 by like 45% at the end of the follow-up, which is like crazy. That's not good. And then the second were severely deficient in selenium to start the trial that took the alpha-tocopherol were the selenium or if they're not deficient in the selenium, that doesn't happen. And one of these going to give you cancer. No, there's a whole host of complex mechanisms that are at play here.

1:51:43 who said, Oh, the almond milk's amazing. I'm not drinking milk anymore. I go, what does it say as far as grams of sugar? So vitamin E supplementation, in your opinion, you should probably just get it from diet to make sure that your levels are normal, healthy levels. I think there's Swanson brand may have a good one. really really high dose of vitamin the alpha to tocopherol, vitamin E, there could be a potential danger in it depleting the gamma form.

1:53:39 But you can buy mixed tocopherols. I mean there's lots of complex things going on. why supplemental antioxidants are bad. And this is another example of context. So if you don't have enough of the alpha, gamma tocopherols, then you're going to have increased DNA damage. tumor suppressor genes get activated and they kill the cell. So what they've shown is that in mice,

1:56:08 because you can attenuate that pathway that is important to kill cancer cells. complex processes that are going on. Antioxidants can cause cancer. I'm just going to fucking. gamma-tocopherol, it's something I think is important for people to understand. You know, Is it the RDA? took 4,000 IUs a day for a year. that it could have raised their levels higher than that.

1:59:59 after taking a year of 4,000 IUs a day. maybe he goes into some specifics that I'm not aware of. there was a 17% decrease in cancer risk, and there was a 30% decrease in cancer mortality, had the longest telomeres, the measured telomere length. So that's another one. a week they took them. And what they found is that the ones that took vitamins on a daily basis had

2:02:49 And you'd have to be out in the sun for 15 minutes, you know, because getting it from fish, well, maybe fish has a good bit of it, but you'd have to eat fish every day. I do my smoothie, I, you know, I definitely try to eat my greens and healthy meats and fish, And also what happens is these proteins, they bind cofactors. Like what's the USDA and what do you think should it be?

2:05:33 S-W-A-N-S-O-N. so it has vitamin C, which is interesting. 833 that's interesting. 833% of the U.S. RDA. Yeah. your lipid bilayer is kind of more rigid and gets screwed up over time. about overdosing the alpha tocopherol is one which is e right right like i said the whole interplay And they don't have EPA or DHA. Yeah. So if you're vegan based off of philosophy where you don't want to eat, like, any type of creature.

2:10:25 True. They are absolutely active. It's very important. age-related diseases. And DHA, as we, I think, even discussed last time, that's a really important So, well, it depends. much I take based on those components, the EPA and DHA, because that's important. Yeah. the anti-inflammatory mechanism involved in fish oil? You know, you've got this whole cascade of inflammation going on.

2:13:52 where it's like it really, you can measure it, lowers inflammation, like systemic inflammation. I don't know. That's just two. Well, how many quarts is in there? I don't even, yeah. If someone like tried to guess someone's height in centimeters. So keeping them at four degree – well, keeping them in the fridge, sorry, lowers that oxidation process.

2:16:03 If I don't drink it in two weeks, I throw it out. It gets kind of much. How do you feel about krill oil? I don't know if I've ever tried it. So that's what I like to do. over fish oil. It doesn't have a lot of a lot of research on it, but I'm looking at the DHA and EPA specifically. If you're taking this Maybe there's something else. whereas fish oil does not.

2:19:15 I'm not either. So, you know, if they're talking about – and it's been shown to activate mitochondrial metabolism genes. Because they're – you know, what else is there? there's an article from mercola is that a good website If you're saying just krill oil, well, you're talking about other things in the krill oil because if we're talking about gene activation, DHA is doing that.

2:21:11 Yeah. They have dogs to feed. And the reality is understanding mechanism, like what I'm saying mechanism, I'm talking about DHA can activate, you know, promoters in certain genes to increase the expression of mitochondrial And I would love to see you dive into all these claims. Astaxanthin. Yeah. God, that really is the issue, isn't it? There's just so much to try to sift through, find out how to separate the wheat from the chaff, as it were.

2:24:08 So the microalgae oil is the next best thing, in my opinion. If people want to go to foundmyfitness.com and try to figure out what you've already sort of described and you've already explained, but how does a person start? I think a really good resource that I like is the Linus Pauling Institute. So if you go to Are there places where someone can go where they can, you know, like say like you're just,

2:26:37 They'll measure different things, C-reactive protein. So I really like them. Overweight physician, I mean. But the nutrition thing, Naturopathic gets lumped into homeopathic sometimes accidentally. at the wikipedia of what is the official term sorry homeopathic they have their own measuring Dilution usually continues well past the point where no molecules of the original substance remain.

2:29:49 It's water. And we looked it up, and it was mindopathic. I was like, what's that? I didn't really even, I knew homeopathic was kind of crazy. And I looked, we looked it up and it was like mind blowing. I couldn't believe So there you have it, homeopathy really. some kind of benefit from it. And I found that our wisdom teeth have something called dental

2:32:09 they send you a kit with like buffered saline solution. It's like a benefit because getting your wisdom teeth removed is not fun at all. So you can, you know, your child is their tooth and you can bank it, uh can bank it where you freeze it. they had done the things that I thought were the best. meaning they can form any type of cell in your body. Because I've seen other studies that were not super recent,

2:35:11 They actually took an injection of young blood. stem cells, young stem cells in the blood and stuff that are... Yeah. And they've been able to, over the past, you know, few years, they've been able to, over the past few years, they've been able to identify that there's patterns of methylation in your genes that happen with age. So I think that's pretty freaking amazing.

2:37:59 So what's really interesting is now they're looking at what genes these are, expressed. There are certain genes that are not expressed in stem cells for a reason, because when And then the stem cell, like, stops dividing. And then it activates this whole pathway of demethylase that take off methyl groups. as it relates to aging, which we know that environment regulates epigenetics.

2:40:54 So I think with the advances we're making with that in combination with this learning the – figuring out the human epome, where we're looking at methylation patterns It's really hard, Getting funding in science because— You know, they're things that people feel are already solid. So it's like, oh, you already stem cells in both the areas of the muscle and the brain

2:43:12 the creation of new cells in the young mouse slowed, introducing it to their own to stay young? I'm going to grab another water real quick. I think a lot of it comes down to, you know, like I said, there's these, going back to young. So it's like now you're not expressing genes that are causing your stem cells to senesce. Yeah. It's the same concept, but you don't have to get someone's young blood.

2:46:00 Yeah. researchers announced the creation of artificial blood for transplant. body so they had more blood or EPO, which And they have a lot of the same genes that we have, but I could like inactivate one of their genes and literally double their lifespan. So when I first, I remember that hit me, It's just such a strange time to like try to pay attention to all of it and watch it all happen.

2:49:14 Oh, without, you mean just like. But what if 100 comes around and they've got shit locked down where you look like you look now at 100? I'm better at it now. You could challenge yourself. There's so much to learn. and just fucking go down some totally different road. Yeah. See all that stuff about San Diego? Yeah, huge tornadoes of fire, 100 feet high.

2:52:10 I wound up doing the show, but I said, I donated all the money to the Red Cross. And it was really weird because there were all these pelicans and all these birds flocking to the water. you know, And, Yeah. Well, when I got to work, we started filming. For an hour, an hour of driving, all you saw to the right side of you was flames. Is there any sort of like.

2:55:11 The embers fly through the air. It's Found My Fitness and it was just released I'm trying to make an interactive community. So I'm asking people to donate, or it's not really donate, to pledge 25 cents a month to help me reach my milestones One minute to go. I mean, I got to go back over it 30 or 40 times to really absorb it all. Thanks to our sponsor.

2:57:16 We're going to have a lot of fun. See you soon.