Joe Rogan Experience #524 — Rickson Gracie & Eddie Bravo Transcript

Transcript

0:00 The Joe Rogan Experience. here and have this conversation. It's funny because last time we talked in my house a while ago, you you position your opinions it's all very precise so I'm very happy to be here and discuss some talks and talk with you. watch the documentary, Choke. Well, it was a project with a student of mine who was working with the Polygran and also the comp.

3:38 and they looked at mixed martial arts more of like as a sport. That was the first time I had ever seen a So it's a process of knowing. So even though the acetylactic take over your body, your mind is still sharp and you're still responding accordingly. And you obviously learned jiu-jitsu from a very early age, but how did you get involved into the yoga?

6:51 So he combined, he developed some kind of style of yoga, And then we started doing privates, and I was in his place for a couple of months. So I start to breathe and move and breathe and move. 15 minutes and completely off i mean you didn't notice anything because he was applying the And I was like in a state, a meditation state for a long time, like not concentrating in anything like rational.

10:22 stick for life so you just got into this state making my workout, getting a high, very high heartbeat. When I'm 120, he's 45. instincts this took it to the next level. either catch what is there or resolve the problem never disappoint or never uh late no expectation out of the family. I'm competitive in my heart. This just happened. So, I don't exactly know why I'm I'm the one I just have to represent and be you

15:14 Who's Anan? You had a cousin, Holes Gracie. since I was born So he was like your brother? So it's my brother. There's no way to see him differently. He was known as a One day, Eric Paulson was a good student and a very good friend. would say you learn more leg locks from Eric Paulson's tape then holes yeah I It was like very interesting because the fighters,

18:12 Halls grabbed them in the footlock especially in the in the final match in his weight division Yeah, the referees started getting upset because, like, no headlocks no no collar chokes it's only knee locks foot locks, or straight arm bars. You cannot even do the Americanas because it goes in the chokes. Yeah, that's what they do is foot locks. Yeah.

20:38 very strong guy with maybe wrestling and judo background, you know and i was just trying to do my thing and then one like maybe a minute before the very I'm not there to win by points. doing leg locks a little bit, right? Not really, I locks i always love straight foot lock yes and then what eric paulson Eric Paulson was an encyclopedia of submissions.

23:11 Adoption of leg locks in jiu-jitsu. Yes in the early in the 90s and I competed in the tournament, and so did Eric Paulson. and stuff it was like a big deal and I ended up losing I let it go and afterwards Eric Paulson's He showed me this leg lock where you go like this, this weird thing in the parking lot. He raised that one. Do you think that's a good thing? I like to, first, of course, it's a pleasure to talk about all this. And I can answer that because I feel like the heel hooks has to be implemented in the top level fighters.

25:57 This is a joint, this is a ligament. bring back in because this is part of the game and you have to be responsible I don't want some leg lock guy coming into my school that's kind of positive and you rarely ever hear about anybody getting hurt. I can't even tell you that maybe leg compressions they don't visualize the possibilities to hurt. class but at a time when i was trying to combine it together we would have a day where we just do

29:35 So there came a point where I decided, you know what? What was the guy's name that was responsible, Foxcatcher? Well, not just that. They do. Pedro Sauer? And then he was not happy at all. And after a few sessions, I made him tap some. loser and I show you a loser so he was not happy at all and of course I holes brought from wrestling and from Sambo?

34:04 So Halls was always for me a reference. he beat me like in the first two or three. and the in the range of my father like in a weekend we all get together has a huge match And we know that, and nobody knew. So we always close the open, you know. and I'm number two And he's a great guy. He was in my corner with my dad. I really, you know, this conversation goes very well.

38:05 which is the new JJGF, Jiu-Jitsu Global Federation. in the jiu-jitsu community is losing effectiveness. In like a fight? brought the sport of jiu-jitsu and those rules, a lack of desire to engage in a fair fight. on the cage who translates that. idea of clinching, he has no that kind of efficiency, I mean, I'm sorry, effectiveness, jiu-jitsu is losing, you know, it's losing the integrity, the whole culture, the whole concepts I trust and I believe all my life.

43:07 and the sport of jiu-jitsu thinking that i have three different elements the first one is the So the masters will be involved in answers if they want, and they will be highlighted because that's his opinion, that's my opinion. So all this is completely disorganized and completely split. So I think that's very important for the community. The score is what matters, you know.

46:49 You stalling because you want to be in control by using what I call an anti-jiu-jitsu move, Yes. I'm sorry? Is it subject to interpretation whether it's stalling trying to make it happen you know what? What about submission-only tournaments? Do you like those? There's no time limit. get into the battle for the jiu-jitsu but for me it's the same rules in case

49:47 this is fair 20 minutes end and then you ask the guy if we see like somebody with minus points this one will be the loser you know because he displayed less desire or less gas In a lot of tournaments, it's like you go into overtime not who the best wrestler is. And then the next round, you take my back, I escape. of combativity supposed to be penalized but a lot you could fake that though like a wrestler could fake it like take shots and oh yeah one thing is for sure in this new federation at the same way we have the

53:35 That's a beautiful thing. And I will start to relate the records of every event, who won here, who won there. So the change of rules, aside of the education aspect of the federation, is very important. So great. all the black belts today. I'm not going to say you don't deserve it, but I will suggest to them to get certified through the federation because they

56:50 You have to be ready to defend yourself from a slapping, You cannot teach that for children or for women. You know? that kind of strong background, you know. I think if everybody fights like Krohn, we don't have to That's terrible. which represents the same thing, the ASP for surf or the ATT for tennis, That's what I think too. What is unacceptable is that grip promotes only

1:01:32 And you're kind of just stuck there. So you should have the hip movement and the angles It will be easier. What has changed since your ideas when you put that on today? It's all pushing forward, so the whole pressure. It doesn't change that the way you fight has to be a positive, beneficial idea for the Yes. you guys came and you, like, there's Ultimate Fighting Championship that I saw was number two.

1:05:07 Well, they didn't release it. Yes, and then so, guy Guitar Center told me it was really said some some Iranian guy was just So the second one came out. hero. But on the other side and I thought, either this is I was so, from that point on i was obsessed with I didn't know why and then he said, oh, I'm planning to do some events. And I didn't like the rules, but I liked the locks.

1:08:53 Valitudo 94. UFC is our game. We are in business, but if you give me nothing the guys offer me a lot of money to go the UFC did you did you think because he was the youngest one of the brothers for many fights i never did many fights contract i mean many fights You were like 185, right? Maybe a little less. And then, you know, I was making a preparation to go heavier than this, sometimes even 200.

1:13:06 By departure, your son passed away. So after that, I started to get a free agent for a couple of years. looking for that but I was have a little injury on my hip and until I I be able to feel good to training I could not sign and because he has a deadline in terms of promotion and such I could And I just don't want to just jeopardizing my life for the money you

1:15:39 You know, I could not even think about... The defense is not going to do good for you. Because, you know, if you empty your gas in the wrong time, you're in trouble. and become comfortable in the skills. This idea of having an open round, having a no-limit fight. Five hours. i mean the best one out there and when i see a fight after 15 minutes you know? So for me, not the rules today and UFC and such doesn't translate the best guy out there.

1:20:53 if crone do what he has to do with the time he has to do i believe on him like i believe myself So, the difference between a fight and a match, the difference between a fight and a sport. It's not done. because the time is not as long as enough. We give advantage of, you know, whatever. I was not on his side but he didn't so it's just he did the second time yeah the rematch yeah he

1:24:10 It was K-1, right? he's going to be able to take down that wrestler. He got on top, and then he choked him out with a guillotine. they're getting all that disadvantage. wrestling against wrestling I'm a big advocate of pulling guard in MMA. And as he's sprawling, he pulls guard. kind of diminishing your capacity to survive and to defend yourself. So you're attacking techniques from the bottom, but you're still on the reach.

1:27:26 doesn't have to be so you don't believe that you should be clenched and only if the guy if the guy But you still can use different strikes. Then he pulls guard. as well as a wrestler, and hang on to him I will be on his back in no time if he's away from me And the action, man, because it's a lot of, even though in those five minutes fight, it's That means he's not going to be studying or in a distance

1:30:47 mma a lot today yes yes did you watch bj penn's last fight yes that that fight was very sad to me integrity but also to attack you know and I don't feel that and I feel like I But it all started off when I was on this quest to put together And when headbutts were legal, your left hand was like this. You and Henzo, that's what you guys are doing. his first tournament? Yes, yes. So and he went to the finals with Fabio and I knew

1:34:20 I said, Hoxton, come here. And then I went to the garage on my mats. I said, lay down. When I finish that section, I reinvent myself in terms of what I'm going to do if I have to fight Marquette tomorrow. A little more. Feet on the hips? so technically speaking when somebody wants to attack me as a brawler, I don't want to fight, brawl back. on edge which will be on top of the the offense now Mark Kerr in that fight that

1:37:52 marquer being tough as he was it's so big the monster just happened in front of fabio and he Yes. I didn't know you changed it up. But at that point point I thought that was it. That's the defensive posture. there was a lot of legends there, a lot of jiu-jitsu legends that were going to Abu Dhabi. Their guard fighting stance was sleeve, collar, collar, sleeve.

1:40:30 They didn't even understand it. So if he did Valetudo or someone with that style guard did Valetudo, the overhook game automatically takes away the punch. Everybody looks at Jean-Jacques as Yoda. Like, how did you come into Abu Dhabi and finish everybody? He wants to do takedowns in the gi that translate not going to work as much he wants to do takedowns that in the gi that translate no gi

1:43:17 So he was more like hip movements and using the ankles, using the foot. as soon as she's not going to wait, she's going to go and attack that arm. And, yes, she hasn't really gone against top-level jiu-jitsu girls. She's a super athlete. And nobody has the heavy hands in the situation Ninguém tem habilidades no chão para lutar contra ela. so far feels like even too easy you know it's like not even a competition for she's gonna start to have competition you know because so far feels like even too easy

1:46:46 money in other person then Honda I mean yeah I was in a good I mean I was getting better too She was making some big mistakes, though. when someone snap kick to the chest, that's Look what happens with the arm bar when you do it 100,000 times. So it's a lifetime of achievements. It's intensity. she i mean the training is hard the focus is hard she's serious and, the training is hard, the focus is hard, she's serious.

1:50:04 They sometimes have it from the wrestling family and then learning some box, some jiu-jitsu, some defense and go. So those things, you know, you don't buy on the supermarket. Yeah. Were you impressed by watching tape of Shinya? Carl, he fought two guys. where he would do flying arm bars in judo So Krohn was pressing him without an engage, to submit chrome those are hard to catch because chrome is very skilled to defend very good is he

1:54:06 marcello just crushes he is unbelievable what he does people go to his gym he's like hey you can You rarely see full guard in Abu Dhabi. And then Krohn put him in a guillotine and the word is that and marcelo i So he could have put him to sleep there. And he's escalating his progress is I'm like, someone said it. Best fight I saw in the year. Yeah, and then JT Torres.

1:57:44 stay on top, and just kind of maybe get a takedown late. all he wants is the submission and positive points in the first 10 minutes but it's negative points so I was hoping It's like throwing a chicken inside. And the whole crowd is listening to this. to talking like a chicken i felt like he won explode. I don't want to make a mistake wasting the opportunity,

2:00:34 and then he's already waiting trained me for Metamorris man i never got into guillotines but over the last 10 15 years they've gotten so technical man i tell there's just levels of squeeze but it's different than I was visualizing. I believe the biggest aspect of jiu-jitsu yes i believe the beast the biggest aspect of jiu-jitsu is invisible Okay. What do you think about Marcelo Garcia's variation of the guillotine?

2:03:40 It's an option. So you have to be precise on the adaptation of each. like the Darce and the Japanese necktie, the Armin guillotine, Did you get into, because one of the most popular chokes over the last 10, 15 years in the no gi grappling scene is the darts. Oh, from the... And then I think it was Dave Terrell showed it to Joe Darcy. The origins of the triangle, like just the leg triangle,

2:06:52 Old school guy? the the eric paulson situation with the the new i always have a open mind to accept to to embrace You know, that's the concept which leads to to of when Yoji Anjo No, you didn't... of the number one things that people are when i hit a couple of million people on my site i may one of the champions of the UFO, talking around my name forever some guy some some one of the friends i have in japan they

2:10:15 But I'm not there to fight in his event because that would depredate my real fight status, he started saying, based on just speculations, you know. want to talk to you. through my parking lot and I saw a camera full of Japanese with cameras full of reporters inside so but you also said you fight for free for your honor. Mr. Gracie, you mean if he don't sign, you don't fight? Immediately I felt like if I

2:13:57 But different than a normal event where just put him to sleep or whatever. own blood and then i said to the the press said okay now let them in so when the press come in Andrew come back to me, he said to the crowd he was jump you know i was jumped the guys jumped me out because the press So then my next fight eventually was with Takada. I said, yes, I fight him.

2:17:00 too bloody. We have to cut head butts they have Fuji TV like pull it off and bring it to the next level. So I didn't know that. So they were working for the UFC, running the Pride offices for the UFC in Japan, but then they were running their own organization. what was what was the reasoning behind that fight how did that go down So they set up a fight between,

2:19:55 And the gossip starts to become like, oh, and then people may ask him, He had maybe 50 guys training, all without gear. will challenge a college basketball team from from from Cucamonga right not official, but an unofficial game called Jogo do Bicho, means game of the animals. And the guy kind of got me a little confused. And I felt like this has to have an end, you know.

2:23:14 that I could not just Rio every Sunday every Saturday Sunday he's there with the okay so next Sunday When I get on the street, man, no postponement anymore. morning, we all gathering in the And then at one point, everybody quiet. the messenger comes hey they are there so so he went to the beach and as we approach the beach So I kind of messed my knee on the sand.

2:26:51 punch, punch, punch, punch. So I immediately stopped. He just kind of messes it up a little bit. One week later, And as I approached the school, there's bad guys, guys with like all the eyes, his instructor other guys they coming down and we we kind of crush each other in the in the middle So my father, myself, the news on Hoyler and Eugenio Tadeu, we kind of move away from the

2:30:38 touch the fight It's a honor thing. so i felt a completely different animal because he was already trying to, by his approach, his position, the way he moves, I felt like he wants to punch me. waist like high make a little hip movement and put him horizontal and throw him on the concrete For me, it was not exactly the well-done job because it was just too quick,

2:32:49 yeah, man, I'm happy. You can be good. so they start to fighting. He said, I want to see who's the tough guy now. those all night we can go forever here man People are going nuts you release it yeah let's do that okay oh but let's go yeah let's keep the the the couple about banning cannabis as a performance enhancer do you think I mean what do you Some people can have a little bit of some drug and get a reaction which can make him crazy or

2:36:40 What you do in your life, you know, it has to be respected, How much the cannabis affects the athlete, I'm not sure. So if you took cannabis like a week before your fight, you're not going to be high when you're fighting, but it's still going to be in your system. I think it's only control your emotion, illegal has nothing to do with whether or not it's safe or dangerous it does nothing it's all political at this point so

2:39:26 change the fight for colorado yeah so or the training camp being in colorado so everything under the influence of cannabis and ride a 25-foot wave no the the the wish the And sometimes some of the guys, my friends, who kind of normally smoke some, 30 feet? Okay. Oh, really? I believe in the ocean being the most, the hugest electromagnetic pole on Earth.

2:42:41 It's about going to the ocean, my routine make my exercise breathing you know But I think the most important thing in surfing is as you become under pressure you have to strategize you have to be in What's a typical day for Hicks and Gracie? those are very, very valuable assets, you know, plus the time i have to do things i love to do It was a great day.

2:45:58 and be here, to be full of energy, you know, You just, you know, it's just. I try to do things that are really relevant to my soul. Like this federation now, when I dream, I don't and you forget the quality of life. Those things is priceless. how motivated he is to wake up and do his thing. and the payments. oh, I don't like my wife the way I used to like,

2:49:54 that's keep you like one step behind But when you're 50, you say, Australia, what are you going to do there? Maybe I'm going to, so it's old, you don't think twice. The guy say, hey, let's go to Australia. You think, okay, let's go, boom. But when you're 50, you say, Australia? Because if you're willing to sacrifice, if you're willing to broke new challenges, if you're willing to

2:50:50 and I acknowledge I go there to die. It's about how I feel, how I feed my kids, how I follow my I may say, okay, that's not for me. a new strategy to try again. Don't say just waiting for people or waiting for more. anytime we can do this So we are true on that, Thank you, bro. Use the code word Rogan and save 10% off any and all supplements.