Joe Rogan Experience #546 — Mike Dolce Transcript

Transcript

0:00 The Joe Rogan Experience. Thanks for coming on, man. It's yummy. But one of the things that's on the line that a lot of people aren't aware of is a thing that we call weight cutting. but that's the rarity. The only division where that doesn't take place is in the heavyweight It is a huge thing because you get guys like a perfect example of extreme examples is Gleason Tebow.

2:37 he suffers and he gets down to 155 for a very brief window of time and then rehydrates the And we want to touch down at 45 and be there for really under an hour. I'm about 17% body fat. How does a guy do that? out of the year so they can minimize the downside of the weight cutting practice. They need to be So the athletes, when they get to the fight week or when they get to the location, they're focused on the scale.

5:27 important thing to you. Let me check your phone. psycho with their popular star women girlfriends it's those fucking weird guys that are in the Okay. eight-week, 12-week training camp in weeks or months before. and he went into shock. The Vanderlei-Silva fight was the most recent fight I worked with him. in the casino i I see Lieben. Yeah, I'm partying and whatever.

8:19 All right, all right, Chris. That's exactly what gave him his edge and what got him to the top, yeah. fight with stephen bonner in the finals of the ultimate fight of the first season which was such related to people calling each other up and going dude I said, why don't you give both these guys a fucking contract? You know, he made some calculations.

11:53 and sometimes they get knocked out and sometimes they get their hand raised and uh you have to They're not even. It's insanity. the majority of the instances of men match they and they would still cut weight and then they would try to rehydrate and they didn't of, well, he was a light heavyweight and he was a super middleweight as well, wasn't he? weight cutting and about the dangers of head trauma because before that fight gerald mcclellan

15:05 I mean, it certainly contributed, right? eating organic and green fight week when you start cutting weight or two three weeks beforehand Because, like, with Lentz and all my male athletes, I try and keep them right around 10%. So extra body fat actually does that? Is that a scientific fact, like your joints get drier when you're leaner? So you can have, you know, when I was a power lifter, I would intentionally increase my body

17:52 word right it's yeah absolutely it's fucking it's it's very limiting like they they hit you with Remember when Rocky was training in Siberia You know but for the longest time that most people thought no you had to use a Nautilus machine You could call someone a bro and you limit their... I have a team. I have, you know, employees that have degrees, masters in exercise physiology.

20:08 And I have tremendous amounts of data. What did they eat today? I speak with the coaches. I know their lean mass ratios. Oftentimes, I know what their of the training. I know the amount of rounds that they put in. I know their caloric breakdown. I know their lean mass ratios. I'm going to another fight week somewhere, of all the scientific evidence that's out there also.

22:15 bonus they get a fucking head kick bonus yeah they get a ko of the night well that's it's performance Golf, NASCAR, anywhere you look that there's money on the line or you get rewarded for performance, there's some sort of ancillary good or commodity being used or purchased or consumed to improve your performance. because he's a champion, and that's how a champion feels.

24:13 because he's got a fucking tireless work ethic, has never been the same guy again yeah and that's the reality is now he's being tested, he's shrunk, he lost body mass. what a fucking war. he had apparently he tested before the fight thought that was it i don't have to worry about more of that primal urge and instinct and those elevated hormones pumping through their body

26:40 and people's like, oh, it's just lip service. and brings in like the the highest most stringent olympic testing that they can find they bring in It goes directly from your hands to the lab. of human growth hormone or uh testosterone to try to restart your body system like it's it's oh, there's 90% of the guys or 50% of the guys. of them nick lens is one of them bj penn is one of them um there's john fitch john fitch is one of

29:21 I'm a huge Pride fan. That bald bastard. But, man, I would love to see what those guys were actually doing. Insanity. it's a whole other ballgame. Like, no, no, no, no, no. I don't think they give a fuck about that. Super athlete. speculation. Like, we would look at Vanderlei I'm dehydrated. And it was, they got fight at performance at night, fight at night,

33:17 Well, but Stan recently accused Kung Lee of being on performance enhancing drugs after he fought Michael Bisping didn't piss piss hot and that's it so i mean i don't know and it's it's a tough call because He's a mean motherfucker. Dan Henderson, who knocked him out, wasn't popped for steroids, but he was on a legal what testosterone replacement's all about but when it comes to professional athletes doing it, man, it's very tricky because on one side, an athlete can take

36:06 accumulated all this experience the hormones sure there's, history of fighting Yeah. But on another hand, and you work towards something and then you achieve it and you do it just And you work towards something And that's high-level sports. and i'm not He couldn't get his heel to touch his ass. that shit wasn't normal, son. It's not like you know what

40:33 Tell the truth. That's food that has been broken down and they've isolated very specific components that they've shown to enhance performance. had already had issues with it but they started testing guys um off like just randomly like come And this is not idle speculation coming from me, by the way. This is me talking to people that are in the know, people that were actually there.

42:36 what they were allowing because they didn't know that you could take testosterone and if you took That was the issue with when Nate Marquardt was pulled out of his fight with Rick Story It was astronomical. Sure. It's very weird. Everyone knows. years of watching mma he just looked fantastic and if there was no concern whatsoever if uh there was no issue

45:57 Maybe you should look it up, Jamie. I mean, the UFC's probably upset that I'm talking about it right now, you know, because he's going to come out worse off. walking into a gnc and getting some protein powder yeah it's not like it is over here when it's over Over Vitor. Everyone remembers Vitor Well, that was back We used to call him Garden Hoses. like that from the the 90s era bodybuilding days they're all fucking dying now yeah i've been

48:51 and the bodies didn't change that much. 5'6". 5'6 five six yeah fucking insanely crazy rip three percent body fat garden hoses running everywhere and it still walking around, knocking on the door of 70s. I have to get bigger. But you know, those guys are are on death watch to a degree. Like that's what Matarazzo, he was waiting for a heart transplant.

50:54 I remember when I was just a kid at that time and that's, I was a father and I was watching and that's, on the kidney transplant, the kidney thing some of these famous older bodybuilders were just huge into those prescription diuretics. collapse, massive stroke. And I was an eight year old kid and he was like really in shape. He was a Boom. high blood pressure, hypertension, sleep apnea, get hooked up to a halter monitor,

53:31 And that's when I was performance science based. through my own personal experience. to the longevity side. That was like really the first step for me. age you know a longer, and a high utility. wrestlers or the grapplers and then you know early 2000s it was the NHB athletes before MMA that's just like you know now that we talk about and the culture is a little more advanced i think the

56:42 My goal is not about their weigh-ins. my goal is not about really anything sport related within the next five years my goal is for them to be 120 You've been resting your body completely, not burning your nervous system out. I think that's the least of what I do. give them the tools, teach them the lessons now that they can carry on. You can tell a difference.

59:34 the better you'll feel about it. There's certain shit that's unavoidable. And then if she says that, I'm going to tell her what the fuck is up. have that huh weight lifting off your shoulders that means you're in a bad job Dude, on Friday, I had the 401k about how they're gonna fucking you know sneak off to the bar before they go home because they don't want to deal with the

1:02:11 scrubbing disgusting shitty gym mats I think that's why I'm kind of veering off. I'm riding my fucking bike six miles to the gym, And if you don't live your life like that, you're living your life afraid of risk. 90 ship 90 of what i do i don't like in some ways you know whether it's the exercise or writing or even fun this is filled with exciting shit things going on all the time you gotta assess and move on and

1:04:33 And what drives you? You can sit down and watch a little TV, you know. That's the only way I'll allow myself those rewards. You've got to enjoy the grind. And if you don't do those seven more, you're going to feel like a fucking loser when you put those weights down. Have you earned it? If you want to be successful, you want to set yourself up to succeed, well, you have to be accountable. I can't fucking do it. I can't do it for you. I wish I

1:07:18 They go off menu, let's say, and then Saturday's my cheat day or Sunday's my cheat day and football's And what is an earned meal? with baked sweet potato fries. I would fuck. I'd get a whole pizza Colored beverages only Performance science that was me trying to hit 10,000 calories a day so I could squat, you know, 700 800 and it's a shitload of everything else.

1:10:10 and whenever someone is in trouble and they have a hard time cutting weight, before that so i've been cutting weight since i was 13 years old i was a varsity captain you know So, you know, won't get too deep into that. There's no cash. It was the second year. It's just being in better shape than everybody. strength workouts and your conditioning workouts like kind of building up to a camp and then when

1:12:53 Now, unfortunately, he had some injuries along the way, lot of the wrong things, training really hard, totally overtrained, overreaching syndrome gave me the reins. So from that point on, I looked at, you know, multi-month cycles, you know, So with Nick, using him as the example again, build him up in the off season. And that's where callous your mind you have to go through that the three weeks before that so that's you know seven

1:15:30 and they fold and you'll give up in the fight. from six weeks out. One good, hard spar, proper spar, and one tech spar is really preparation. What's their body weight like? What's the health? Again, health is everything. It's Charles Oliveira and Nick Lentz were supposed to fight this past weekend. said was incorrect from what we saw so nick and i this fights on friday nick and i we get there on

1:17:55 a three-round dogfight. A lot of coaches... At all? At all. or as I like to frame it positively, as purification. We're purifying the body as we healthy we're not tearing them down during fight week we're actually i build my athletes to the and hanging out with Ben Rothwell a little bit. We're just shooting the shit down there. Charles plastics on in the sauna and they would pick him up carry him out and just fucking let him

1:20:44 us a thumbs up he was a nice kid nothing bad was a nice kid. Nothing bad to say about Charles. Nothing coach they drag him out of the fucking sauna they're just sitting there i took a photo of it They want to catch weight. I'm thinking, are you fucking kidding me? So I say to him, I'm like, no, we're good. To sweat to sweat to just have the water purifying.

1:22:56 That you drink a lot of distilled water and it forces your body to release all of its electrolytes or something? Usually it's written down for everybody in the fucking world to read. He weighs in the week he shows up. Usually it's 10 days out. you might not be fully recovered So you can taste it, but it's nothing that you don't like. Never too much that it's not good. Add a

1:25:22 same, you know, let's say 2000 calories a day, but instead of five to six meals, Is that real? Where's it all fit? I had heard that that's bullshit. So we speed up their metabolism. water out and then we'll use what I call the step method where it's a very simple way to not break the athlete, to keep them sweating properly. And the weight again That's it?

1:27:55 So he woke up, so 146. You're going to float one to three pounds typically while you sleep. But Elvis apparently had a lot because he was taking drugs. you would be in such incredible pain maybe 10 pounds of food. no matter what we're doing in this camp three months six months from now it's a different was eating properly those 52 weeks out of the year.

1:30:51 stayed with him and he was 196 or 198 three weeks before the fight. Jacked probably, you know, To a degree. 194. anytime he has you know the heavier carbs outside of the the breakfast bowl oats and such berries we are. And what's the benefits of a refeed? It's to refill the body of lost glycogen to make sure Got him on the first program, the initial program.

1:33:42 into that last three week phase, the peaking phase, and he's now 148 pounds yesterday, you make a specific one for each fighter and you sort But he didn't cut any weight. And I didn't disagree with him because he didn't cut an ounce. I have to rely on the athlete. It's his body. It's his choice. He but he didn't want a doctor to come to administer it. And I have to rely on

1:36:05 lasted 10 seconds. I know. When she fought No IV in that fight. And how much did she cut in that fight? He was, back when we filmed The Ultimate Fighter, the 9th, which is less than a month before the fight. When I got there, BJ had said he weighs, miles away in another area. It was a weird situation. It was one of the oddest training And how often was BJ training?

1:38:58 He has Steve Rivera there, And the only, the top-level jiu-jitsu guys, were the two guys I brought in at the last minute, and really tried to do his best to mimic what Frankie was going to do. not responded or reacted to and it was just a matter of you know this is that's the direction lowering his stance and pushing off of his legs more by standing up straight he would extend less

1:42:00 When we were on the Ultimate Fighter set in October, Agreed. and style and style you just see what's what he wanted to do i guess and that's he's he's the boss A guy like BJ Penn would almost be unstoppable absolutely it's hard man it's it's it's it's really a fascinating sport I got to get some ropes. because he's throwing rocks and fucking you know there's throwing punches with little hand weights

1:45:01 You're learning so many skills, the combination of wrestling and judo, No, there's a lot of other shit you have to do too. available now for the top dog so there's a is a race and that's obviously what brings in the peds exist in all sports, of course, but in MMA, it's almost like there's not enough time in the day other things that bj's camp said was that you kind of restricted the amount of food that he ate the

1:47:43 He was two minutes from a whole foods next that was A full fucking smoothie, massive handful of kale, handful of spinach, handful of red grapes, handful of blueberries, handful of strawberries. I know. I understand. brown um travis bound to this interview and i really love travis i think he's an awesome guy And then I figured out, all right, what do I need to work on?

1:50:33 how after the fight there's this instinct to sort of blame. fucking impact can a guy who's telling you what to eat have on how you fight because what i saw BJ was coming off of a massive layoff. And I think I've built a solid reputation within the industry. And it was just uncalled for. It was I didn't have to be a part of that camp. he's a superstar there he's just you know he's like the king over there right and it was it was

1:53:11 There's, you know, I understand what you're saying. when he rehydrated no this yeah after wayans rehydrated then the day of the fight okay he rehydration process the iv and everything that? You want everything moving through the body? I felt weak yesterday. that's a lazy athlete what about fedor fedor could have been better i believe he could have been god

1:56:21 Is there a proper body weight for a heavyweight as far as like when you get too heavy you're dealing with gravity you're dealing with mass that needs to bigger probably. But my point being, And I agree. and he's one of the better conditioned. he'd be even better than the best heavyweight ever? He's still gonna fuck Larry Holmes up put 20 but is he still able to cover that distance?

1:59:13 And they could have been better. and me visually i'm not in their camps i don't know so we're just kind of throwing shit at the Probably 14 to 16. Yeah, I know what you're saying. A lot of times guys would just tell you, all right, hit the bag for our promo, I call it sexy training. and we were cast members They're fucking brutal. on you he's like granite yeah i mean as we're talking about this and talking about different

2:02:35 Looked great for a little bit until he got clipped. Yeah. gonna say no this is the system right and you're gonna say well that he's got it and then you'll But it's all, like I said, the athlete changes, which is why we have the principles. I'm sure just like Eddie's doing every night he goes in the gym. He's like, oh, shit. like Jeremy Stevens, And he just works hard

2:05:01 and he'll throw, like, And he just puts volume on you. does not have that sort of one-punch Jeremy Stevens power. Yeah. middle of nowhere that's going to come out i can't imagine that but i know you're right it's That's awesome stuff. No one's, like you said, no one's ever done that to Dan. That's right. is that what's happening with a lot of fighters is they're going through the same sort of thing

2:08:39 those people are fucking animals. camps i guarantee you a lot of them are going to have low testosterone absolutely i would agree During the fight or from the fight? is that physically, I mean, he's a really strong dude, but he's not tall. He's not long. He's got You know, it's funny. I mean, Agreed. to the the guillotine attempt in the first round,

2:12:03 It wasn't like one of those where it was like Scoggins barely got out of that first guillotine where Moraga How do you tell a fighter to stop? that he was having memory issues yeah and um and I think there's only a certain amount of times a guy can fight. you know, anytime an athlete, whether you're an amateur or you're making millions of dollars, He's a legend.

2:14:36 but is he ever going to elevate the status of his legend? he's not gonna ever elevate where he's at where he's at is a fucking all-time legend. And there's a lot of grossness involved in that, man. But there's some managers out there that they have their hand too deep inside the athlete's pocket where the athlete can't excel and can't develop themselves as a professional

2:16:19 and that's really what I was talking about. and you're getting them notoriety does all the negotiation. totally happy with what they get paid is if they're at the top of the heap. I mean, the only way the athletes are ever going to be in a situation where they're completely, totally happy with what they get paid is if they're at the top of the heap.

2:18:08 that's not what gsp get for fights gsp got a lot more money than that like and gsp as big as he was when he was fighting as well and making insane amounts of money in that. They're on Spike TV. I don't even know either, yeah. Is it Lima? He's world class. But someone from his fucking camp talked him into But huge disparity. And the whole thing was just preposterous.

2:21:16 sort of transcending the sport. She's the biggest star right now in an MMA. but you want to be good at. So you bust your ass to push your way into that field in that niche and athletes they have more than enough time to Go with what they have. Knocked out Jen Pulver, won the K-1 Max North Americas. that they can use their brand, Absolutely. Because she has that fucking rah fucking whatever it is inside.

2:24:23 She also has that sort of personality that that polemic, you know? And it's hard for people to find that. She also has that sort of personality, people are like, she's fucking crazy. like john jones you're gonna get that guy yeah that's what you get that's those are the type of And I would think that anybody who, like, I've heard people say, oh, he's cocky.

2:26:00 a la chael sunnan i think he'd be way more popular and chael was never the the successful I'm telling you the truth. because we all knew He's serious about this, isn't he? he will become the Ali of our sport. find it i always found it odd when everybody would get upset at him and say that they didn't like I know I'm going to get a bunch of hate tweets.

2:28:26 the last episode not really folks doesn't bother me uh pro wrestling fans are really mad at me Holy shit, folks. I really think there's something to that. and to have that type of success whatever i do whether it's podcasting or comedy i'll be better at 48 than I am at 47. When I hit it, I'll know I hit it. everybody listening at 25 we're all fucking idiots and if you're 25 right now you're gonna look back

2:32:10 Sure. You know, he's also the guy that submitted Vitor Belfort. Just some hype in the fight. face like you know fuck you and then remorseful afterwards not far after he's like man if you're him down once did he no no he didn't even come close that's a scary man right there yeah and And I told him, no, I don't think it's good. Yeah. And he's also emotionally very mature now.

2:35:47 It made him wake up and realize what he was doing wrong. It was unimaginable that guy can make 170. Vitor. His body failed. Opponents he gets pulled out of a fucking title fight because he can't make weight and he falls asleep And then to have to cut all the way back down again, there's no way we can expect his body to respond. You have two people in there to help you stand.

2:37:47 It's a moisturizer. in the story before Chris Camozzi was like, water is Epsom salts. Your body actually absorbs magnesium. It's a great way to get it through your these guys that are, you know, these weight cutting sticking with and if something was an anomaly well we consider it and we look at to look into but the one I would like the redo, Torn bicep, cracked shin,

2:40:21 commissioner come over and check the scale again when the first commissioner called him at 171.5, which he wasn't 71.5. the onstage scale and it's a different weight. Absolutely. And we've seen, I've been at events, hours you're trying to minimize that period as much as possible get him calm again because he's freezing cold. and get him back on. So that's

2:42:30 Fuck. out there to get his bicep torn off and possibly ruin or possibly lose his only opportunity to a it's a real thing it's real they are all of them all the men all all amateur wrestling champions I think a lot of, I mean, not many guys actually make it to that, the top of that podium. crazy son of a bitch right he's an animal it's the same thing what we're talking about that just the tough motherfuckers

2:45:33 source in its natural habitat raised and bred in the natural way you cannot beat that when it comes There's no, you know, it's eating the exact food it's supposed to be. Is that quantifiable? So whatever is seasonal, that's what we typically cycle through. I mean, not professional athletes, but in our normal get a high enough calories from their proteins and things like those? Yeah, it's harder for them to

2:48:44 And Jake has said that. I lost a lot of power output. but then he went back to meat. I lost weight. They love when they get one, but when they lose one, man, it hits them hard. which is total bro science on my part, And if you caught a fish, Yeah. It could be. Maybe. Well, I know they until science- Maybe cheetah's the best shit for you. Maybe we should start eating cheetahs. Could be. It could be.

2:50:59 Mountain lions are motherfuckers. No. If people want to get a hold of you, how do they get a hold of you on Twitter? Absolutely, brother Joe. Thank you very much, my friend. Really appreciate it. Thanks also to LegalZoom. is here on thursday joe de rosa will be here on wednesday until then big kiss have fun take care