Joe Rogan Experience #574 — Dr. Mark Gordon, Matthew Gosney & Jason Hall Transcript

Transcript

0:00 Joe Rogan Podcast by Night, All Day! one of the big ones that we're going to talk about is Dr. Gordon. If you've They're able to keep people alive that may have died before, and also they're able to Unfortunately, about 410,000 vets are coming back with what's being labeled as PTSD, when in fact they have a form of traumatic brain injury. Under the minimal or the mild traumatic brain injury, it's the physical trauma to the brain

4:00 And then you need just one more hit, one more not even loss of consciousness to create the scenario of inflammation the brain that leads to hormonal deficiency The young guy? And he was 26, I believe? brain you see that they're aging a lot more faster than normal person in fact a study that was performed by the NFL So that verified the fact that they were really low.

6:32 but he was significantly depleted. which is an MRI that looks at the connectivity of nerves, look at a PET scan or a SPECT scan history for the people listening to this sure i'm a navy seal medic i've been out since 2008 I was really depressed. And my mind wasn't getting any better. that you can recall that caused your injuries or is it just uh just the entire entirety of your

10:20 And then just, you know, shooting M4s all day, jumping out of things, It's a survival mechanism. And so emotionally, I was able to do that, to turn it off where this. What's going on here? So then you look at yourself and you go, this is just me. And if this person that I love and who loves me back can't live with me, I could barely read. So even sleep wasn't even giving me comfort.

13:32 I think there's just been some huge cases and it's come out. married or she was going to get the Matthew who could rip her soul out and eat it right And I wouldn't hurt her, but it's a protection thing for me. It's that case of, you know, you can't get better until you acknowledge it's wrong. almost sounds it almost sounds like a miracle cure but at this point for me it was um within 10 days

16:01 my real, I'm the real me, but a different person than, That's amazing. So what, what exactly did you, what would you put them on? Tell me what, what, how did it start? your well-being how you interacted with people how you could cope changed everything that's But testosterone is only one of a multitude of hormones that we focus on there's dht all regulate inflammatory chemistry in our body, our immune system.

18:25 dosing, which is an average 25 to 35-year-old male makes about 4 to 10 milligrams a day. So we use literature that has been out for many, many years, and now it's getting more focused that in order But you have to have the right environment. Well, I think, unfortunately, there's a financial motivation to things. you know, thousand dollar drugs. And it turned out that it was a 50 cent drug, erythromycin,

21:51 where he was killed He got approached by a woman who was working in a parking lot. 2009 i heard his story and i went I went down to Texas to meet him. jacked him up a little bit and then chris finally started talking to me he's like all right i'd choke him out a little bit yeah um how did you get involved in this you you read the story and you Your guy's full of shit.

24:25 correctly so they were talking over a sat phone with the guys at vortex they're giving them the Yeah. in the world of of uh these soldiers and their issues and how did you get connected to uh matthew I don't know, you know, how he's going to work it out. His kids ran into his arms. than this i'm gonna keep going especially seals right yeah you have to just to get through buds

27:13 Yeah. to to what he felt when he laid his head down on the pillow at night but uh he found some real to do with myself now? What mission can I accomplish? And it's not there anymore. There's sources, that they had to get funding from donations, and they had to ask people to call in and donate. We're talking about a fucking blood test. low testosterone are having and it's not a huge mystery you know but it is a mystery to to all

30:44 Most. after writing Sniper, I'm adapting a book They don't have any hope. Well, we keep records of it now. in 2012. her face on the floor because she's trying to act as if she's my friend and knows what i'm talking of these medications working how many more medications can we give you you know before you my doctor look at me saying, I know what you need, but I have to do it this way. So not only did I

34:53 as a whole they're not and so you go in there i mean i was going in you know you know i would go Oh, yeah. It's very personal and intimate. horror stuff that I went through. So you just internalize it. You internalize it. Your buddies, go break a ton of shit. Just simple things like that, that every day, it's like, no, it's not a but then you're just, you realize you're right where you were and you just keep moving on and it just never gets better.

38:03 He weren't enjoying doing the things you were enjoying before, and that's classical depression, And the responses across the board, she says, I'd like to get off these medications. are not independent of each other correct uh you know in the past uh i started in 2004 i had uh I hit my head on the metal bars, landed up in the ground. So I was, you know, went through undergraduate, medical school, residency, everything was fine.

41:35 The following year, Muay Thai in Thailand came out, and then that was my epiphany. that they develop depression. Why can't you link the two? And that's where the problem's been in linking the two issues. Hormone deficiency for whatever cause can predispose you to issues of Just for no reason, you just start being angry and rage, screaming at people.

43:22 allow you to have sensitivity to these things that are called depressed, our cognitive ability so that the long neurons that conduct information over a long period of money, and I matched it out of my pocket, out of my practice, to provide the type of services to get the system back up and running. but what they're saying essentially is we have to be careful

46:40 find that and what the literature as i referred earlier, is showing us that we can regenerate neurons. Having head trauma initiates a group of inflammatory cascades in the brain that stimulate growth factors for nerve regeneration. And so having all the hormones back, removing the that just tells you that it's happened. and then there's intracerebral bleeding that occurs.

49:27 There's a chemical called NOGOA, N-O-G-O-A, which actually inhibits the ability of nerves champion who at the end of his career starts getting knocked out a bunch of times just and simplified version of it not to make it too deep but their tolerance has changed where in the past So you no longer, you know, have a hundred thousand dollars in your bank account.

52:02 uh you know certain drugs, alcohol. He doesn't want to get sued. Well, Anthony Bourdain's on it. Obviously, he isn't. My point is he's taking this just because he doesn't want to do anything to reduce his cholesterol. estradiol, and DHT and DHEA, and they were all reduced. All we did is stopped his statin drug How is it that one of my best buddies who's an ex-fighter pilot has a cholesterol 140 to 150

54:59 ends up having open-heart surgery and artery replaced from his leg. And what spun off that, you've heard of chelation therapy. and use calcium EDTA, sodium EDTA, phosphatidylcholine chemicals that remove it. and also to repair the wall of the arteries. And there are a lot of articles that talk about this, the myth of cholesterol is myth, Cholesterol causes heart attacks.

57:42 Correct. Yes. Okay, fine. and other groups use beta blockers to relax the contraction of the heart, other ones to stretch the blood vessels and so forth. Any medication? So it's 5-325. breaking down muscle muscle tissue and it's painful I have six titanium bolts three oxys a day and it seems to me i mean i'm i'm ignorant to this but that still seems like

1:01:51 i am during the day so i might take one in the morning when i wake up and then maybe one at night How did it change your relationship at home? i'm maybe that was the wrong way to phrase the question how has it affected your ability to like my ex have been better. There's a lot of hurt there. So that comes out sometimes and on both And so that's there, but I want the best for her.

1:04:56 turned on to this i mean you you must know other guys that are suffering from similar conditions that he's trained and gone over. And, you know, they're not in every state and every city and every VA and every practice. It's all written about. and he sent the labs over, and screaming on the lab results, very limited, but significant enough, they do is they put them on a drug instead of asking them, have you had any head traumas or

1:08:04 How long does it take? I've heard heard 10 years it can be up to 17 there's an article that came out just And when you lose that reserve, you start deteriorating from growth hormone deficiency. The same thing with testosterone, Did you really? You know, TBI PTSD hormone therapy. know this this movie that we made is about a guy who makes this huge sacrifice, you know,

1:10:39 public is completely ignorant to it i mean the average person you walk down the street say how And it's the polite thing to say, Well, there's also that movement out there. That's not support the troops like less war in this world but the the reality of supporting the troops and the reality of the protesting is You're talking about 18-year-old kids that are unbelievably easily influenced that are sent over there and essentially brainwashed.

1:13:17 It could have been a lot of us. I mean, really, they do all these training things to help you deal with getting out. You do this. just how life was that's just what they know and they go back and it's comfortable it's comfortable But, yeah, I mean, if it checks out, you just go, okay, you're good to go. You go through things where you... I mean, very good way of putting it yeah the internal piece that they need yeah that we need and there's

1:16:58 just needs to get out there well i think uh this is gonna help but obviously it helped you the first enough courage to say this is something I need to try. that um you mean a non-profit or sorry 501c yeah what is a non-charitable? A non-profit. Sorry. No one. One of the issues with just giving testosterone is we have a mechanism in our body. If you give a hormone or a chemical into the body

1:19:23 kind of attitudes and so forth. What are you trying to say about feminine attitudes well how dare you i've No, there's guys out there suffering man you know Basics. can cause damage to the control mechanism in the brain called the hypothalamus. I know that because I use something called Google Scholar. Associated with damage to the pituitary from prolonged surgery is hormonal shutdown.

1:23:02 DHEA has about 17,000. Estrogen has a large amount. you have to be healthy you have to have the proper nutrients you have to have rest and exercise and is what is perplexing on one part because we went through medical school are dictating to both the patients and to the physicians on how to run medicine so that No, it doesn't sound like it's being done correctly at all.

1:26:08 And that's just my personality. even, and my outside They support what I do by matching the funds that I personally put into it so that people like Matt and I have some patients who are not in the military, was something that was very important to you which is is why we brought Matthew in here to discuss this. on the fringe. Because even though I'm in core medicine, everything I do is called evidence-based.

1:28:55 Dr. Abraham Morgenthaler, these guys don't want to be perceived as being on the fringe but they're coming to you as patients yeah I think stuff like this yeah But I mean, everything I'm saying, though. the lack of testosterone directly related to depression, directly related to these people that start hitting age, regardless of traumatic brain injury.

1:31:26 And someone, I've talked to guys who are on testosterone that don't like to talk about it. You're cheating at life! You're a life cheater! and you're tired all the time right like what are you worried about right but the and the difference And you're just like, you understand at that point how different it is for these guys, i wasn't hearing this echoed in other places and when sometimes when you hear things

1:34:03 with a guy like you that has spent decades working on this stuff there's this is not this is not a really well No, it looks like an underarm deodorant thing to try to avoid contaminating your loved ones Well, what happens is when you put a cream, a 10% or a 5% gel or cream of testosterone And enlargement of the prostate. And we see the major benefits in our TBI and our head trauma and neurotrauma patients where they do phenomenally well.

1:36:39 Fenestride and Durasteride. changes from testosterone to dihydrotestosterone, 3-androstenedione, and then it stimulates a chemical called adenocyclase, which gives us our upgrade feeling. And when you block the conversion or you have a sequence of of um of memories that you can lose if you lose your testosterone DHT in the brain. But it's this pill that makes your hair fall out.

1:39:10 And the reason is that they found that DHT helps to distinguish the brain's gender orientation. I don't believe in the social cultural reasons for it. She had been raped multiple times when she lived in this country that's always conflicting over there in the east area. Okay. It creates all the wars warmongering country. Okay. She had a PTSD. The mindset was treated with hormones that created the other gender.

1:41:35 I think it's hormones. you're saying about the introduction of the certain chemicals in the womb people resist this fighting women in mma fights never fought as a man and was fighting and just beating the fuck lot of people have taken you enact permanent Estrogen has counteract some of the benefits of testosterone. they're probably not getting adequate amount of estrogen or they're supplementing with one form of either testosterone or Deco or an angel on or Deca and Angelo on what Andrew and of

1:46:22 Men are different for a lot of ways the way we analyze things in all lack density. You see in six months to a year, the bone density responds, So if you're stressing the bones is really what it is, you increase the density. on the tendon. So it's the muscle issue. But the muscles decreased with estrogen therapy. They can just decrease with argument more than it becomes an argument of fairness involving a sport where the very goal

1:50:33 Let's have them compete against each other. unless you totally put in chemistry to stop that. biggest problem in this one case that you're talking about is that there's really no precedence Her first finish was 2.5 seconds faster than the winner of the professional female category uh she went on and you know this is another example of someone who has an unfair physical advantage or is thought to have that chemically.

1:54:22 that's the best way i mean that's probably the best way to handle it. They might be in their 70s by the time okay, brain-wise. So you have to treat it like a disorder, a disease? It's a deficiency syndrome. we bring them to a level that has the the peak of it do you have 70 year old wives coming in you go Now, in the past, I would draw the blood, me and says, oh, by the way, Dr. Gordon, I probably should tell you i finally had sex with my 60

1:58:02 he says no so leave it home he says but i'm afraid i might fall he's committed to his walker like you're committed to your thyroid absolutely so um Let's see. Is that why we have it? And she'd meter it by her libido. In an hour, and in two hours, and three hours, and four hours. You had to take it? It's a common one. to them, and they get hyperventilation, and they get fast pulse, and from the hyperventilation

2:02:04 your calcium and it falls out of solution. paper makes too much crunching noise okay so the idea of a bag being that you're not getting all It starts with an H. Woody Harrelson, I think, has a lot of the oxygen bars. What's the actor's name? Who has such an age? So getting more oxygen, you know, in Las Vegas, you go to the airport. That's what I've heard, too.

2:04:11 What are you doing? Gambling is a multi-level industry. irresponsible decisions while you're doing something that involves gambling and correct I don't even remember. Oh, so if you're asleep and you have a little oxygen, Where? It's awesome. I've done it for half an hour if I just want to relax. person i'm talking to doesn't know what what i went through but in my own mind when my own

2:07:15 Because the mind untethered from the body is very difficult to get to that state. But once I'm there, yeah, it does help. It's not like, oh, what are we doing here? oh you know your mind's like, water. And then you also have this no gravity effect because you're completely floating. You're bobbing in this water. And Jason, too. some of the guys that I know around the states that have shows not as similar to yours but not as grand and have each helped to make a little dent

2:11:14 which are relatively simple. And then go out and start being representative of an alternative to yeah it's uphill battle um if they weren't in the military they go into a clinic now what's and it works so anyone who's listening you know you know someone who might be there to connect us Right. and you need to have that balance so they don't get sleep deprivation,

2:13:56 didn't feel okay and he was willing to go seek some help for it you know and hopefully this movie This isn't some lady sitting there, you know, God bless these women who work at the VA and the men, too, who are these counselors. You hear this story over and over again. it's going to be incredibly difficult to put the mind at peace yeah and it's tbimedlegal?

2:17:05 and that'll help to cover about 100 patients, let's just try to get something where there's at least a point of a starting Don't let me down, folks. that and figuring that out. And then once the book is done which i'm hoping by june tuning into this uh that is uh is benefiting from this please uh one more time go to the website Thank you. See you soon. Bye. Thank you.