Joe Rogan Experience #576 — Jim Shockey Transcript

Transcript

0:00 and just like that we're online pretty easy huh This is online right now. There you go. conservationist, all of the above. theme when we're in those places you know what what's going on with the hunting in those crazy I mean, they started, my original ones a zillion television, the way you watch television. You know, hunters have some of the highest

3:21 the meat they eat and where it comes from that they view the people who go out and get it themselves, online the other day and he was having these, You know what it is? And we, in the popular press, became that guy Howard Rourke and Hemingway foot on top of their lion, you know, with their gun up and, But it went against everything that was family finally you know we we did not have access to any press we had no way to tell our message where

6:18 So it's only been in the last 10, really 10 years, in the other direction now in a pretty big way and i think one of the reasons why is these um They want to see them being a little bit different. Well, I don't think it's necessarily that they don't want to see it. I did. I'll play it for you if you like, Willie. They want to see freaks. won't even be able to remember how to breathe i think i think it is changing i think what we're

9:44 and nonsensical things always sleeping and you know and you watch this dumb show and you wasted a half And on television, it was reruns of Storage Wars. I watched every commercial so I wouldn't miss the opening of that stupid safe. And there's, at the end of it, you're still hungry, but you don't feel sated. I mean, I don't always, there's times when I despair,

12:38 It was $100 for the cab ride from the airport to here. take the heat. I mean, we were listening to it in Tanzania now. And that, that gives me hope. That's, that's hope. Well, that was, excuse me, that was a safe. what they find newspapers or something and then nothing nothing but you you're a guy who is that'll be ultimately much more satisfying. And they'll clink champagne glasses and they'll drive off in their mercedes and they think they're doing a great job they're not bad

16:27 you know, Fruit Loops and Captain Crunch on this. it's hard to put down a package of Jubees You know, they're going down that aisle. to do the right thing and to, to undummy down There's too many networks. And that's, you know, so like you say, it's not I mean mean they're people and there's a lot of money involved and risk taking is not on the top of their list of priorities what's on the top

19:24 in in the bit like storage wars those kind of shows they don't even that's not even real like I mean, it's a perfect show to produce because you know the result every single time. Okay, I'll go down there and, you know, just see Yeah. And we're bear hunting up in Canada, in Alberta. Les Stroud's a part of it. It was many, many years ago. and started moving

22:00 I mean, hid that memory and said you know find a happy place and keep it compartmentalized elk totally outside of their normal sound But it could have been a bear making noise outside of its range. Again, I'm a little older now. And it's a spiritual place, and spiritual places is where spirits live. So, about events that we both witnessed where they have one portrayal of it and i have another portrayal of it and it's they're so

25:30 It's a squirrel. There's grizzly bear, grizzly bear, And you don't know. What do they call this? You literally can't make a bad slang for a white person doesn't exist or, you know, fill in the blank is, like, very devastating. You got lucky. I mean, there's always an after. Yeah, resources. So we may well be knocked off our pedestals here in the next couple of

29:24 programming that you're getting on television. but they're taking all these wild chances and they're doing this really interesting, to get us here is all the brutality that we know that happened with the native americans and all ernest hemingway and instead of that it's that cute girl i don't know what her name is that was involved in that huge facebook controversy because she had kendall kendall

32:01 He's laughing at the other one. have that gene. We're the hunters. We're the better hunters in the tribe back then. We're and, you know, they can punch this pilot, I don't hurt animals. And it's not a tradition, it's not a skill, actually live of course the wild yeah and i'm not i'm not predicting that and you know i'm And nobody thinks it's offensive.

34:40 with it you go down any road in Americaica and canada as well and pass by What bothers them about it? and they don't understand, the challenge of getting that bear, and it worked. The picture is what offends these people because they equate the smiling with the joy of killing the animal. But you know what? haven't done a great job we haven't had the tools to do it until now until now but what it is is

38:37 I go, you're wearing leather shoes. You don't know anything about how it was acquired. you know, how I say this, it's like the truth sometimes is like laying on cold, hard ground. It's like a castle. They want to deny that they had anything to do with that. lived till whatever you know i know i saw the picture is probably a you know six seven eight

41:06 And that person has the right to come to you that in in the defense of the people who get angry at hunting they're not they're just not getting I just shot a moose last weekend. We hunted for four days, climbing up hills, sneaking up on moose that winded us and they took off and They they don't you're in it all the time And we're becoming more and more hypersensitive.

43:41 I can't sit at this stupid fucking cubicle anymore. terrible and it's all a part it's a symptom of the same thing of this this this infantile society resistance now you want to see resistance just go over to these asian countries go over to africa and and south america and those better than it's ever been before so there's all sorts of great things about living in a

46:16 I've had people tell me, why would you go hunting when you buy your meat in a store? They're like, what the fuck is wrong with you? That's what we are, but we are still part of nature. So they perpetrate that or perpetuate that, that, that image that we're separated from wildlife. the same way you did, but the cubicle, you get out of it, go out into the world and you'll

48:32 There's an overpopulation of them. You think of, you know, you think of Frank Sinatra where those two big black bears were duking it out in that new jersey suburb i mean that's rutherford people don't yeah it will sort it out but it might mean they eat us that is a possibility and that's But it's, you know, we can't, hunters want more animals, but we also want to be able to control the numbers.

51:02 there at night with a silencer and pop off the bears and kill a bunch of them. night with a night vision scope and a silencer. will lose that. weird thing and again it comes back to the picture of the smiling hunter over the animal or you they're trying to thin the herd or you have animals like you know like uh bighorn sheep in And now instead, you're in a deficit because you have to actually use public funds to go

54:19 But it's, you give the, you hunt the animals, they essentially have value. What value did the animal have? places in africa where it's only hunting that has kept in north carolina if the hunters they might be losing $60,000 in one, you know, three or four hundred acre crop field, So now they have a reason. nothing in this planet will survive the next 30 years

57:19 and this world gets really cranked up, So these animals, if there's a way for them to pay, then they have to pay. have access to and you know down the marble mule lead it's going down on that tree so so these I mean, this is one of the things that people have such a hard time grasping, Contradictory? Yeah, no, there's another word. Oxymoron? Oxymoron. Yeah, jumbo't make sense. What's the word? I've been trying to think of it in my brain. I've gone brain dead. It's a... Contradictory?

59:01 that we really should have access to when it comes to And you realize, like, wow, we're so fucking vulnerable. We want to think of ourselves as being separate from it. You know, there's still people, lots of them. of your shows to get back to uncharted it was uh amazing you were in pakistan and you were And meanwhile, you're over there with these people.

1:01:55 i don't care where you touch down on is a good guy and i use that figuratively there there's bad And in those countries, that's a volatile changing The intelligence agencies monitor everything. So that's what happened. We got a word that we had 15 minutes, get out of there now, right now, go. Well, we're being pretty vague about it. So I think the visual depictions of, you know,

1:05:46 But instead, you're choosing to go halfway around the world to one of the most dangerous, volatile areas currently and hunt an animal. every day you are so far away from the tourist lanes, try and do is live with the hunters learn from the hunters and that gives us an insight into their That's not really what I'm doing. And I also said at the beginning, I don't feel fear.

1:08:53 like unfathomable to us. We look and go, you've got to be kidding me. You know, you say you own that stuff I don't get. They, you know, they may eat stuff that I just look at and go, well, You told this company line down here in California and just, this is the way it should be in They're taking care of them in all these crazy places where you'd expect it's anarchy.

1:11:20 not what we're smiling about. We're smiling about the process that was involved to get to that I mean, I've got a big smile if I'm whatever animal I've hunted. The thing that ties us, it's a network around this entire planet of hunters I mean, you just would stand out too much. But, you know, be prepared because you're just a target at that point. And make no mistake every wildlife

1:14:21 cameroon in west af, right on the Congo border. and hunted my translator was the only translator i've ever hired that could only speak one language Then you get out and what, are you camping? It's not illegal to hunt, but there's no, in the Congo itself, now Congo Brazzaville, I've hunted there, you can hunt. when you when you break it right down they go into those places and and do their best to protect it

1:17:16 You can't shoot an animal quartered towards you. and that that uh that i i just said look jimmy face it you should never have taken that shot and is trying to take off and you would normally be able to just with a bolt action rifle and have another shot in the chamber ready you it takes what 30 seconds yeah if if if So, you know, the more opportunity, we're humans, right?

1:19:42 And it gets a little hairy on dangerous stuff. Maybe it's the native tracker that's helping us I didn't take my muzzle. I So we were sneaking along a riverine, you know, sort of a creek, thick, thick, thick stuff, working our way along. we were sneaking, 30 feet? second from when you have to acquire the target No, no, just the hang fire would be too, you

1:22:19 They're a dangerous animal to hunt. He just waddles through. We went into the village. They are dinosaurs. There was a shirt inside it. You don't know. It'll come out in 2015. she's helping me co-host it. defending this bear kill because this, she put a Facebook post up. her holding on to the bear's head um i think it's from facebook they could find but um ranella has an interesting take on it that i think really holds a lot of weight and what he's saying is

1:25:56 they're attacking her. How big is that about? You know, and it's easy to stereotype, you know, that big slovenly hunter that, you know, swills beer and shoots out the truck window. They are scared to death of this, this impact. I mean, you can cheap shot me for that, but you can't cheap shot her for that. She's got a degree she's very articulate she's very well spoken she's not overly emotional she doesn't distort

1:29:04 lady who's there there is only one logical answer one logical way this whole thing can be played If every dollar that people donate to organizations that try and stop Tourism being photo safaris, photo safaris, photo safaris, essentially. those animals. Now, if the animal rights guys or if the animal rights people convince Joe Blow Public, somebody sitting in their apartment in New York City, that you'll donate your money, this will stop hunting.

1:31:55 They stop hunting. They go, they lobby over those in those foreign countries and you can buy just about anything tidal wave, wipe out all the animals, and the next boundary they're going to cross are the parks. issue is not nearly as large in America. No, it's not a poaching, but it's habitat loss. There, it's a war. well it doesn't work they're going to kill the bears so we have to okay then let's make buffer

1:34:42 where the animals get the money through the hunting can live inside and people show up and they pay pay a lot of money and they go in and hunt Yeah. which I was no problem doing because I didn't believe it and I thought it was a bad thing that means he never would have been outside that fence whether it was there yeah, it can't get out of the 10,000 acres, but it can sure as heck get away from you as a little one mile but you're only allowed to hunt in that one mile right so now yeah it can't get out of the 10,000 acres but it can sure as heck get away from you as a hunter

1:38:19 You know, it's just as effective as a high fence, a bontobuck. but the animals still just kept in there, can't get out. even the photo safari places that are adamant against hunting, another 10,000, another 20,000, and they were all high-fenced. the fences are all down and in those conservancies, And we're spoiled over here. It's only a few hundred acres.

1:41:22 Right. Yeah, never. I've seen him perform. He goes crazy. Like, what are you doing? And that's, you know, we'll all sit there and countenance every word before I say it. like i've i've seen him debate uh i don't know, again, I don't know the TV guys, but one of those talky guys and masterful, masterful. Hilarious. He's got them written down. He's brilliant.

1:45:02 Wango, tango, cat scratch fever. Guys like you, guys like Cam H like you guys like cam haynes guys like I mean, this is why I'm here. things i mean i'm so easy to marginalize already. I'm a cage fighting commentator. By the way, I saw you in UFC 100. Whoa. Oh, no, they texted me and said that they listen to you when they're going out hunting. It's building.

1:47:44 with taking in quality food and not eating as much gluten or processed sugar. for as long as we want and so if you have a point you don't you don't get cut off by a commercial The worst animals in the world to be stuck alone There's as many tigers in Texas as there are in And again, they are being killed and they're being poached constantly, constantly.

1:49:41 that you have to like, I mean, since they left India, I don't think Poachers turn them into aphrodisiacs. For some reason, they're on that kick now, which is. Well, I think it was before they knew about Viagra. Really? It could be Korea as well. right huge issue because someone spent hundreds of thousands of dollars on this rhino hunt to be able to go and hunt this rhino and everybody was so angry what they didn't understand was that that rhino was an old male

1:53:08 Well, it doesn't make sense. Feds could force Dallas Hunting Club to scrap the rhino hunt auction to $350,000. How apropos. I don't know. And a lot of that political pressure is not doctors they know what they're doing the the communities up in the north are killing those I didn't even know that it was still legal to hunt them in Canada. Like there's some African elephants that you're allowed to hunt, but you can't bring the tusks

1:55:58 and South Africa, as far as I know. So they should listen to what CITES does, but they don't. It's just like this is reactive management. on global warming and you ask them, do you think the polar bear is endangered? right i'm gonna you know i'm gonna get my toboggan and and you know sled all my my toys down to bears can fight or fight through the ice, find their seals and survive. So there's more seals

1:59:31 between Russia and Canada. So again, the Inuit know better than anybody. They live there. When you can't walk out of your house and not see I don't understand the logic behind their decision. my world is melting around me. I'm dying. What would you do for a Klondike bar? These animals are doing fine. No, no, no. That's fascinating. Have you eaten polar bear?

2:02:29 The Inuit knot, it's, it's the brisket. You know, you spend 20 days out on the ice with the Inuit on a dog sled, you're, you're hungry. So it's hard to take it out of that context and tell me there's a better piece of meat in this world that tastes better than that wild sheep It was insane how good it was. I've had the same thing. It's not. Yeah. It's organic.

2:06:00 shoot something well i'm very lucky and first of all lucky that i got to meet steve renell and have my podcast and i got to take my introductory course in the hunting was it takes a lot of you have to invest a lot of time and energy that people a lot of people don't have You literally wouldn't believe. put it in the plastic bag. We froze it. I took

2:08:34 You know, now what they're missing, they're doing it very surgically. It's just the hunting part we don't get yet. Now, here, let me take you into the outdoors and show you the part that you don't get yet, You know, life begets death begets life begets death. But the hunting part, they're still on the fence about. enough time. You do have enough time. You just have to change your priorities. You know, instead of sending your kids off to the

2:11:13 Because maybe they want the Rolls Royce. in order to discourage predation Yeah, and it doesn't mean it's not screaming in a language we don't understand. stop me from eating the leaves of that plant, or a lettuce, or a carrot? No, not a bit. The same way sort of how bees are affected by cell phone signals. convenient because it doesn't scream because we don't recognize its life in the same level as our

2:14:39 Now, when you're traveling to all these different worlds, I mean, there really are almost like different worlds, these different parts of this planet, and you're interacting with all these indigenous people. Now, that doesn't mean that some places, they're not vegetarian because they have to be. Yeah, I don't like those terms, first world, third world.

2:15:50 Like, well, this designation of first, second, third world. it's it's egocentric yes it's like the world revolves around us right it's just earth it's You know, Hinduism, I don't know. I was like, Jesus, what are they doing? You know, that time we were pretty lucky. Really? The Soviet era, anything had nothing to do with comfort. to these places they live there that that's where they live they're they're hunters that's that's

2:19:13 Yeah. What does that mean? up in the high Andes at 14, 15,000 feet. The only one animal lives higher is the Turuca, No, but I'm sure. planet anymore. He probably doesn't.'d go on it anyway but but if they raised a million dollars for conservation So he's not contributing to the preservation of that species anymore or the it with one auction with one tag wouldn't the argument against, obviously I'm playing devil's advocate here,

2:22:31 now no nobody has nobody's gonna give a million dollars to protect the fang deer in afghanistan So, you know. I understand that wolves kill my caribou in the Yukon in my outfitting territory up there. X amount of ungulates around. You know, they're going through it in Yellowstone right now. So, So, you know, you know, it's a tough one. So would you kill that?

2:24:49 in that way, but because you can't have them and have wildlife, you know, like, like the ungulates So it's a much tougher one. You know, can you justify that? as many wolves as you want there were the guys who uh are there the hunting guy that i was with Yeah, there's a lot of wolves up there. And, like, that's a crazy subject to just strike up with somebody

2:27:33 People, they have this idea of what it is in the city. So they kill him. avoid killing a wolf that's one way to do it i guess but it if you're trying to manage the every night. Like that's a very rare or rarely discussed piece of history. attack humans, they say that, that's absolute There was an attack in British Columbia recently on the trail, run it until they hit a track of a

2:30:51 exactly so you can say natural because it's humans yes we've got a beaver makes a dam right but then You know, everybody dies, everything dies, and how it dies is irrelevant. And I, you know. Answer, you're an asshole. They shoot them, kill them, the entire herd, babies. I just have a feeling that CAR elephants are gone. It'll come to me, it's six million acres, something just absolutely enormous.

2:34:13 They're going to shoot everything. Yeah, there's big money too. There's huge money at high levels in those African countries. You could have kept the poachers out. poaching now in Tanzania. You know, in 20 years, if you're caught with poached meat, you know, it takes money, but why were they killed? Who was making the money? Follow the many elephants.

2:37:43 It's a really, really sad thing. i think he says it through right anyway um Anyway, he's the documentary guy from England. like it's just like jurassic park they throw this calf over the fence the lions tear it apart in And, you know, and again, this is big world politics talking, this is big world politics that, who am I? you know, the parks will be bigger because of

2:40:21 understand the situation. Ivan Carter. know, Jane, I'm sorry if you're listening, Well, we don't have to play the clip. Sometimes there's one of them. What was the other term for them? They nest on the ground like gorillas. They're, you know, when a chimpanzee walks up And the chimps that come up to you in the wild oh yeah a lot yeah grillers as well and the

2:43:41 they're nasty nasty and big they're big you know you see the muscles how they're nasty, nasty, and big. They're big. When one comes out of the bush at you, just shaking all the trees right in front of you, and then they're gone. Gorillas, yeah. Wow. Wow. Scare them? just running full charge just full of sinew and giant fangs you're like oh god how do you stand

2:46:01 It's a neat thing. Yeah. Yeah, it seems like it. I don't know. Yeah. They're not dumb guys. That's a strange, almost archaic designation. There's a Siloam mark where the middle, Yeah. Yeah. grow these antlers on their head, these enormous Rams keep it all their life. Otherwise, horned animals grow every year. If it's a rough winter coming up, seems to be, they drop earlier.

2:49:49 But they're so tiny, I would never protect them from a wolf. They don't even look real. They're, they're, caribou are an underrated big game animal. And the reason is because it's become part of the challenge. degrees of difficulty. It, to me, it's become part of the challenge of the hunt nowadays. You know, they're there with me as much as they can be.

2:52:10 of the reason I, you know, justification for hunting. So yeah, I will eat store-bought meat, but it's always in those kind of situations. It's still good, but it's not my favorite. No? It smells like rotten fish because that's what he's been eating. I mean, most of the time they just eat berries and grass, clover, whatever. Until I actually tried it.

2:54:20 And even from other wild game, I don't think you could tell. Moose is amazing. oh, that's way too rare. You have to be careful of overcooking that kind And if it is on a deer, it's tallow-y. meat. Well, it's hilarious because he was always Are you really going to eat that? long Guinea worms and microfloria and I don't think I do, of course. just for insurance,

2:57:17 Jim Shockey, you're an awesome dude. This is a really, really enjoyable podcast. I was looking Jim Shockey. Anytime you want me to. I would love it. Bye.