Joe Rogan Experience #767 — Mike Baker Transcript

Transcript

0:00 Yes! And we're live. Mike Baker, how are you, sir? We've been lowering the bar. This is it. But how do you get to the point from saying it's entertaining to leader of the free world? Yeah. Yeah, I look in the mirror every morning and I think yes, I should lead the free world. So right there, I think you've got a flaw in all the people who are pursuing elected

2:41 Beautiful. It is. And the same for river frontage, right? I mean you have to get the vote of the Republican Party or the Democratic Party or the town council. Yeah, it seems like we're down to assholes. politics for so long like i don't know if she knows how to be just herself that's a good point She, for whatever her motivation, she initially said it was simply a matter of ease after saying that she didn't really know because it wasn't her gig.

6:08 Maybe you don't have that much time in the day. They only made about $190 million over the last couple of years. unprotected server it has to be marked classified. It says that you are aware because you go through a briefing about I just don't think the DOJ is going to do it. the left makes fun of the Republicans, It's the same way on the other side, right?

9:02 And this is the fabric that's sort of keeping her afloat right now. Her whole sort of, you know, political operating mechanism. I mean, she's just so deeply entwined in the Washington system. And that seems to be what's keeping her from. I mean, if this was going on and somehow or another, this was someone like Trump, someone who's an outsider, Jesus Christ, it would chase him down.

9:39 I thought there was a lot of good things about him. Free stuff is, give me some of that. But the people that understand it are like, this guy's policy, this is not going to work. and wanting to make medical marijuana legal Yeah, I mean, if you could take Bernie, Yeah. I think it makes good sense. And he's said as much. But, you know, taxing that 1%, the 2%, the 3%, whatever it is, you know, you could raise those taxes up to 99%. You're not going to pay for free health care and education for this country.

13:25 The money's not going to go directly to people. They're going to make more money and work, get less shit done, and it's going to be more catastrophe. But anyway, so I look at Bernie and I think, yeah, I get it. Scott Kelly, the astronaut and Trump is the leading candidate I think he's got something. Well, here's the thing. There's no one else. If Hillary gets tossed up in this email exchange thing, if she gets in

16:01 And it says, get in, pussy. There's the picture. Look at this picture. There would be no work involved. We have more crisis around the world right now, more hot spots, more potential, very, very serious conflicts going on. piss off i don't know how many trump supporters you've got listening but uh he doesn't stand for We get that far in the weeds. He hasn't quite wrapped his head around that one yet.

18:53 Oh, Jamie found it. Well, it's a kind of crease in his head like a pit bull. It doesn't look like, you know, garb from the Middle East necessarily. Yeah, no, I'm pretty sure they had no tied capsules or whatever we used. I like the fact that he's reasoned but he's not presidential he's not Adjust their expectations. He's endorsing Donald Trump. the combination of character and experience.

21:28 They can't have any sort of a weird kink or weird background. kept that secret. because they felt like Well, I mean, Taft. He would talk to his cabinet guys. We'll keep the two-party system, but we're going to have to have a third, maybe a fourth. I mean, we know he's not really in charge. can be on top of international trade, he could be on top of international relations, and he's also

24:10 With no real national security experience. you know, look at the create a one world government to screw everybody over. because we talk about checks and balances, we talk about And it's basically a legal perspective. States is involved with all over the world. I mean, if you just define a base as U.S., you or semi-permanent presence, yeah, it's a lot.

26:47 But, yeah. You want to know who their team is going to be. You know, do no harm or do the least harm possible. it will dish out some sort of a decision based upon the rules of engagement, based upon the And it is literally, like you said, it's spitting out, you know, likely outcomes. Benghazi and you think, here's the part I don't understand about that. Not that you asked, but

29:17 They would have been there. but it doesn't make any sense. All those guys on the ground wanted was to know that the cavalry it was probably because, and again, I understand it's speculation and I send them. And I think that it was probably because, yeah, we might get fucked on this. Why is this important? That's where it doesn't make any sense. Particularly attack on your facility.

32:22 a group meaning the administration that's supposed to be so clever and politically savvy, it just didn't make any sense. And now they've been having to suffer with it ever since. And aside from the fact that they just didn't fucking make the effort to try to save these people. And again, not that they would have. But how do you not how do you not try? I don't I don't understand any of it. I don't understand whenever they're making decisions based on whether or not there's an election coming up and you would do something differently

33:21 You're in a risk-taking business. want to know what you're doing operationally, but you know, there are certain things that are worth and you look at the new guy doing it and What the fuck? What? And the Soviets spent a lot of time So that's exactly what we did. So we don't – part of it is what you were saying. And I kept saying this fucking, you know, this is not what we should be doing with our boys or women as well and our resources and everything else.

37:23 well, it's different this time. Because I was saying, look, it didn't work for the Russians. doing in Iraq, we did all those years ago after the Soviets left Afghanistan. And so we left, I remember when McCain was debating Obama when they were running for president and Obama was talking about going to Afghanistan. So then I started researching Afghanistan.

39:27 And the entire country is basically, you know, there's a few little towns there's one city yeah yeah and it's just warlord they don't know what And because he had found Jesus, And the Italians and French came to us and said, you know, we got lots of interests there in Libya. generals just came out yesterday or today or whatever. And he said, well, I don't think the

41:04 Well, I could only imagine. and trying to convert him to the ways of the West, like these fucking people that executed A little plug. meaning how quickly we had acted. And that son of a bitch was right. you know, fine. They want to do it. That's what they're going to do. They've stepped off the and there's always the folks that think we never act in best interest of anybody.

44:03 Just for oil. But it's not that cut and dry. Well, it's fucking fixing Chicago's goddamn cakewalk a pretty self-correcting nation. We try. Sometimes it takes a while, whatever. But, you know, I would rather us And again, we don't always get it right, but we make that effort. How do you say, hey, guys, you really – you can't execute 15-year-old kids for listening to rap music.

47:19 they've been having so much success in recruiting foreign fighters. There's been a shitload of and also sell them something that they don't understand. So I don't know. But again, having watched it happen and that would happen yeah i mean we didn't sort of influence it at all oh no And there had been for some time, because of the brutality of the Shah, there had been a hardline clerical uprising, sort of directing traffic amongst the population.

50:08 Like that was the argument about what was going on in Iraq, right? That was the argument about He's a fucking truther. Yeah. I spent most of my life overseas. and I can do really well. I just have to, part of it is sort of being disheartened. now I know that if my mortgage needs to be paid, he's going to help me. Right. We're going to get that back for you. Don't worry.

53:36 To say, look, we're going to be able to negotiate. What was your fucking experience fighting? He's never experienced combat. He doesn't know what it means to be involved in a war. He's never been there physically, boots on the ground. I'm not saying he has to, but I'm saying, Right. I mean, look, the guy, but know, but yeah, you're right. Let's figure out where is the workable solution.

55:31 One of the things that was so great about Obama He's a dumb guy. So great. You work hard. because, I don't know, maybe they don't want them to Why are you playing? that fucking sucked I'd say, But I don't know how I got off on this. And then I got dressing down. And you can tell kids that they're not playing their best they look and they don't believe because they've been told they're victims and the system's rigged and they're getting fucked every day.

59:24 And that's where the competition is. The competition is being the most left-minded, the most liberal, the most accepting, and that's where the competition is. I can't even have a word for it. You don't learn from you. This fucking times I got pinned when I was 14 years old, still fuck with my head. You know, I mean, getting tapped out in jujitsu. That's fine.

1:01:45 Progressive is- Well, the idea of being a progressive is a great idea. you understand what needs to be done in order to achieve things. and you don't fail, It's like interrogation training. interrogation training, the idea is you have to understand that at some point, no matter who you You've got to pull yourself back together again. Well, you have to learn the consequences. You can't nerf the world. You have to learn the

1:04:50 Well, this competition fuels everything we have. I mean, there's one reason for that. And it's because there's other cars out there that are And whether you're talking about cars, This guy's landed more submissions. a bad precedent and a bad mentality. I mean, it means fuck all. and your friends are going to love you no matter what. You know, Randy Couture said this to me once

1:07:27 and you can understand that whatever failure that you've experienced there, you think you've got the perfect game plan, because it's so absolute. Same as a score. Your parents are going to love you. We've all seen them. Let's get that one. My daughter, who's now in college, she played a lot of softball. because the dad was like leaning over the fence and screaming.

1:10:30 And I said, you've got to leave, you can't come back. I remember that. Softball also. getting enough play i mean mean, okay, yeah. It's too fucking cold. You got coyotes and wolves and bears and shit that are going to eat you. No, you do. Do you drive there? The urban centers are all starting to kind it also hardens you a little bit we're not that far from Yellowstone, I mean, not far being a handful of hours drive. And you go up to a place,

1:14:03 out there at the scenery. Not allowed. And I think that's part of it too. Wolves? time out there, you understand that, yeah, life isn't fair, right? And if we just keep telling There's a giant spectrum of things that we value. We value camaraderie. We value friendship. It's a big issue with fighters. A gigantic issue with greatness. And then afterwards, they feel this hollow, sad life. It's a big issue with fighters.

1:17:04 You can go down the line. He was like that guy's was that guy's name? I mean, he's a great guy. He ended up, you know, and by the point being is that, you know, he came back and it was like, you know, now what? I mean, he's a great guy. A crazy day today, I got up to 6. They're very reluctant to step away from the game And you could reach a point where you're never going to bounce back. You get a few more knockouts,

1:19:45 now. They'll let their kids fight, but they won't let their kids that's the number one most important thing. Yeah. I mean, the difference between him and a guy who decides to bite down on his mouthpiece and just slug it out and to see who's the last man standing, He's not that age. Get involved in jiu-jitsu. started I got serious well I started my first I took karate when I was 14 but I really got serious

1:22:34 home, me and a buddy of mine were going to the T, the public transport. There's a giant line that sound and as i got to the top of the stairs there was this area you had to take off your shoes He quit. That guy, John Lee, became a big influence on me. He took me under his wing. coincidence, or it's supposed to be that way, who knows? But, uh, yeah, I don't know why. I don't,

1:25:22 You know, I want my kid to be a baseball player. But if you can find that thing like you did that sparks something and the kid realizes, you know, I could become really good at this and And I was like, this is insane. tournaments i saw guys get knocked out in practice and there was also the belt system the belt system It was like, to him, it was like, I fucking did it.

1:27:22 And for people who don't understand, that is a very difficult accomplishment to get your blue belt. Yeah. I can go from here to here to here to here, and that's a good thing. you posture, you stick your fucking chest up, and you don't know. I think, first of all, I'm a big supporter of the Second Amendment. The training aspect of it is anybody who's serious about weapons, anybody who's dealt with them, anybody who's had to carry them for a livelihood, you gain a real appreciation for how quickly things head south.

1:30:33 And then maybe sometime they're going to need it and they don't know what the fuck they're doing. You might as well turn it on yourself. And I think much like driving a car is a privilege. Some rich dickhead who buys a fucking one of those cigarette boats. up on the lake next thing you know you know your kids out water skiing and you're you're you know

1:32:53 And people have a problem with that. Do one thing and it's all going to fall to hell. There's a lot of fucking nuts out there that haven't had anybody look at them. Right. with expanded background checks, That's going back to the earlier conversation about politics and everything else. Nobody exists in the middle. And you're thinking, ah. a gun? And you're talking about carrying a weapon out in public.

1:36:23 Obamacare. So training shouldn't be something that you would fight. When it's pushed forward, you're ready to rock. I don't know. you're not a felon, you get a gun, just walk around with a gun. Yeah. You just have a gun. gay marriage thing and, you know, the abortion thing always flares up and always will probably. There's no reasonable consideration of the pros and cons of this issue,

1:40:35 So this guy, Saeed Farooq, he had three phones, at least, that we know about. A phone nowadays, everybody keeps everything on their phone, right? and this was well before they had to go to get a court order, well before it became public You know, whatever. time, where they could have held onto the phone, created that SIF, destroyed the SIF, at that

1:43:13 and then goes through that process Whatever it was. You should always have that conversation. they've fucking done the rest of the investigation. They've done all the other investigative steps. But I understand what Tim Cook is saying about the precedent, although not really, because, again, they've done this before. question, because this is what came up with the Edward Snowden thing. They were saying that the

1:46:02 Yeah, and so some people would say once they realized what it was actually doing, then they say, well, but that's so what? Yeah. You don't know what the fuck you're talking about. I'm here to tell you that. Yeah. They did. And that was in New York. And that was an interesting case as well. And that's And if you say through the courts and through the Congress that these are the hoops that the Bureau has to jump through, and they jump through those hoops then, then what?

1:48:46 interesting sort of legality to his response to this, but it definitely favored Apple. They're not asking for that SIF. Right. this is the slippery slope again this is the thing that if the government has access to your phone But can it be that you could never grant access? But there are times when, you know, operational concerns probably override at least an element of this where you common or reason to people can exist in the middle and say,

1:51:29 Someone's got to talk about this in the media. searching. They wanted to know what people are searching. They wanted to limit Google searches. All the phones are fake. this is why you're going back to that, and their economy is heading south. actually believes that. And they are continuing to be incredibly aggressive in economic espionage. we would do business there and believe somehow that the authorities there in China aren't going to have our shit.

1:54:48 A lot of shit's made over there, including stuff from Donald Trump. or something that works for the United States government in rocketry or whatever. And then they get a grad degree. They devote a huge amount of resource to this. Right. clearance level you have. You're handing that over. And the interesting thing is, they don't necessarily care. I mean, obviously, it blows their skirt up to get top secret or clearance or whatever clearance level you have. You're handing that over. And the interesting thing is they don't necessarily care.

1:57:42 And that's part of it. You're not going to target the CEO. But if you've been involved in this and you understand how aggressive it is out there, again, not just the Chinese or Russians. Mishandling classified information. What a load of crap. fact that the NSA was involved in this I think everybody should have spent a little more time it so that's a problem right well i mean i i don't know what the ins and outs of uh nsa are

2:00:26 He signed paperwork that said he was going to protect national security interests, that he was going to properly protect the information that he was given responsibility for seeing. Yeah, I know. Go figure. Ha! Yeah. But there's a political game in Washington where they they get to express outrage when something becomes a political football. I understand.

2:03:01 exposed the fact that they were gathering up metadata, but there's been people that have said that it was more than metadata. her conversations, the ones that we would have access to. Oh my God, really? Really? Because What do you think we do? oh, I can't believe that our Americans would be, and saying, yeah, okay, we get it. It'd be great if we all held hands and, you know, winged monkeys on unicorns, flew out our asses,

2:06:07 I absolutely agree with that, yeah. perspective that every nation acts in its own best interest, we wouldn't get caught short as many in there. So he got that. He got Crimea. you know, Eastern Ukraine is for all intents purposes going to become part of Russian territory. And he's always been the How come they're not? As time goes on, that information becomes more and more accessible,

2:09:08 Right. And, you know, that's a lovely idea. And we try. And that's kind of going back to what I'd said earlier. I, you know, and people will disagree. But again, I've spent a lot of time I always thought that was a great line. I don't think anybody's ever offered up a reasonable scenario where you could take places uh it's also because of the way the world is yeah i'm telling you i'm here to tell you i've

2:11:34 who knows? Maybe it's not true. I got young kids, so I'm going to continue to believe it's true. George Washington knew the importance of intelligence. yeah, there's been telephones, there's been people listening in. And you need to check and balance But when all that is done, and you'd like to think if you have an operational concern and you go through those hoops that, yeah, you'd be able to get the job done. Kind of bringing it back

2:14:04 Let's do that operation. That's why we always talk about counterterrorism. They say, well, when are we going to get this That's it. Mike Baker for president. Give everybody mushrooms. I think we always want the one alpha primate. They get so fucking old. He was a good-looking guy, a smooth-faced, handsome, young, vibrant-looking guy. Was it different?

2:16:31 I think it's always been... maybe it serves a good purpose as well it keeps who knows maybe it keeps them more honest i don't He's going to look like Jabba the Hutt. How about Bernie Sanders? Clinton looks like shit. Well, didn't he have – he had like some serious heart surgery, right? And you think, well, you probably could have held off on that statement for a little while.

2:19:03 And you can imagine that's- What about hope and change? like the guy's only three or four years older than me it's got to be a good feeling too with In a book. His mind. Yeah, no, you're right. He died of selfies. maintaining the dignity That's odd to look excessive, Mr. President. Viper. If it was me and I finished up, Why do you like El Camino? on the side? You bought one of those?

2:22:43 91. Well, depending on it. You like that, huh? That is a car right there. I'm serious. You keep it classic. This invalidates everything, all the common sense that you've laid out on this podcast Well, thank you for that. as happy as clams watching with me. sitting in my house, Look at that. What a shape. that was starting to build. Look at that bumper.

2:25:19 Mercury Sun Valleys are another good car. Did you ever get to drive it? He was the king. Because they had little skinny-ass fucking shitty tires back then. But now they've gone back into the muscle cars. Mustangs fell apart. used to be 68, 69, remember? See, you lost me again, you fuck. That's actually not bad. And that's pulling top dollar now in those auction houses.

2:27:49 So they take out their funky frames and they put in a really spectacular, well-designed frame specifically made. Those fucking things. Are you going to do the engine? Especially in Idaho. I'd jump in, and then I'd think, what am I doing? Yeah. Like, wow. I got one of those sitting on my desk in the office. Yeah. Go down that one, the one with the black and white right below that. Ooh. That's not a bad looking car, though. You know, it's the front is so good looking. Yeah.

2:29:58 So, anyway. That's got to be abusive. I mean, do you remember that car? Hello, Idaho. That's what they do. We drive down the street and I see kids in the back of pickup trucks. I mean, facing towards the rear? in the back of martinis at the O Club. Is that a My dad had a Chevy that had the rear-facing wagon seat, Right, the side-facing seats. they were still building those things in the back.

2:31:59 But I remember that was an option to get was the back seats. Land cruisers are a great vehicle, too. The fjords. All the fjjords. Yes. The fjords. Yeah. He was in that weird compound, like hiding out. And so if we'd held off or if we hadn't found him But really, they knew where the house was. look, there's women I don't know, well, fuck you, you just want to go after the oil.

2:35:12 Or other people died too, right? Just us. Right. Well, that's all that work. someone actually uh as his liaison officer in the PACI Intel service. released these documents and at this point in time, and it is, it's fascinating to see kind Yeah, it's a composite of people. You've got to make it a story. I don't know if you remember that kerfuffle they had after they released it, where they called them back and said, well, you know, maybe, you know, over the interrogation program, maybe you didn't tell us everything, you know, and you think, well, no, they just made a fucking movie, you know, I mean, because and there were people that were upset with, you know, Zero Dark Thirty because they thought it put too much importance on interrogation.

2:39:18 The Foxcatcher movie that's based on Mark and David Schultz, the wrestlers. Historical shit about his career as a wrestler, fighting in some small organization, and it's kind of sad, and he's fighting a white Russian dude. He didn't even fight Gary. let me know when you want to do it. I'll fly you out. We'll talk Anytime anybody releases a story or anybody signs over something

2:41:54 And eventually, you know, they've got to spin on it. Fill this in a little bit. Yeah. whatever they talked to him about it, They alluded to some sort of a weird gay affair with him and DuPont. Sounds like a strip club saying or something. Yeah, and this would have been a completely different conversation that you and me are having right now. a little bit

2:43:31 he went full Trump he was young Come on, Iceman. Yeah. But it was during to figure it out. Hey guys, Oh, no, stop. Go up. I don't want that roll. People need to age better out in this town. I'll tell you what. We're going to make your mouth a little bigger. I know. Well, it has. what do they do to you when you're in interrogation school No. techniques including sleep deprivation which is probably at the end of the day uh sleep

2:47:30 But an interrogation facility, you go in and it's all about doing your homework. kit bag of understanding what kind of person you're dealing with. So for some people, it works Now let's go in on that a little bit. This is how you stay close to something that's plausible. And pretty soon after three or four interviews, they're trying to remember this string of lies where what you really want to do is you want to try to keep it as close as possible to whatever the truth may be so that you don't have to spend all your time struggling to remember what was the hell i said last time so like if you lied to someone that you're interrogating that's what

2:50:14 Well, you can't use enhanced techniques. What does that mean? What I'm saying is once people out there know what can and can't be done. if people took the time to go through DOJ memos and look at the actual information. You should do air quotes when you say that. Yeah, I know. Yeah. Well, yeah. I want them to think that we do. took place, people read those DOJ

2:52:56 What's a stress position? What if they don't? I don't, I don thing. I agree. Shouldn't People will say whatever they need to say to make whatever that horrible torture is to stop. Of course they would. Psychologically speaking, sure. I mean, again, it's labor-intensive because you've got to keep checking on them, But I guess I keep coming back to the same thing is we've kind of given up the ghost.

2:56:12 I understand why people are so, you know. to develop relationships with people. That is, in fact, the best way to do it. Develop, No. A moon station. If you want to say it was all torture, fine. Yeah. I mean, again, I know people are going to say, Right. It's not all bad. Recidivism rate for people coming out of Gitmo is up in the 30 percentile rate.

3:00:11 I think, you know, but again, you know, what's the answer? And what does he want to do? trying to find places for these people. And part of the reason why is because you'd rather just paint that target and blow the fuck out of them than risk your career picking up somebody and then getting accused of mishandling a detainee or all the crap that can happen because suddenly they've decided a program for capturing somebody

3:01:55 That is a harsh reality. or the interrogation program under Obama. because capturing detainees is more problematic politically. Isn't that something crazy, like 80%? We've had unfortunate incidents. What if they come up with a way one day to actually, I mean, that would never fly in the united states because functional functional knowledge of the crime could

3:04:39 Was he Val Kilmer? in a movie together, man. So, Thank you very much for doing this. And again, we're getting to a point where it's pretty fucked up, right? Yes, please do. We're going to preview this weekend's UFC and have some fun.