Joe Rogan Experience #773 — Dr. Rhonda Patrick Transcript

Transcript

0:00 Look at him. Poor fucker. He's overworked. We'll do it from here on out. How about that? Yeah. Yeah. Because it just seems like a good song for that. So you did it just for the norepinephrine just for the. I was trying to sprint faster than I usually do. And I don't do, like, long, long runs. you use glucose, and you don't use it inside the mitochondria,

3:43 between your neurons stronger so that you remember things So, and plus it also makes you feel good. good it's actually very stressful on your body what's good is the stress response. The body, we've got a hardwired genetic program that is conserved in plants, insects, bacteria, primates, humans. But it's almost like the brain is preparing for the next time it's going to encounter stress.

6:36 exercise doesn't really play an important role in losing weight. It's nutrition. You know what? work. They just find it troublesome. Or maybe they connect it with jocks or people that were I thought there was like someone coming to get me. I hurt like my like some tendon back here. i've always associated people that are like really paranoid about fear about danger rather with

9:30 and it's so bad. even now I, Yeah, self-driving cars. It's the new Tesla. He's like, it's the craziest shit you've ever seen in your life. You punch in the information and then you press it twice. The road's kind of bumpy, a lot of potholes and the lines are really blurry. I'm in. I don't know if people are just really aggressive because there's so many people and you have to.

12:20 number of people and you calculate how fast they're walking, and then you record them talking, like but it's just like you know hey man i gotta go you know yeah where you going uh dude dude we Maybe they just, maybe that's why. where it's just like, you need that drive, It just doesn't. He was a doctor. But I do think that the more physically fit you are and the more, you know, throughout your life and the better you eat, these things are all going to affect the way you age.

15:38 more difficult route it's difficult now and you know that resistance training I it's something I those lines. That has a pretty profound effect on bone density. There's a hormone that's actually So anytime we're not getting enough calcium, and I think something like 38% of the US population of things that regulate that. That's one, just, you know, obviously just not getting enough calcium.

18:36 So, like, you can find vitamin K2 in the Western diet, like cheeses, blue cheeses, fermented cheeses have a higher amount. It's pretty big in the health it accelerates their shortening because they already get shorter each year. Then what happens So gray hair, you'll get senescent melanocytes, which are the cells that That's fascinating. right now sorry jamie it's happening it's like it's happening all the time.

21:52 Pretty cool. want to stay alive just like we do and they they don't actually make to clear away it activates it actually activates this whole genetic pathway that gets activated I've been very skeptical of the resveratrol literature for quite some time back in 2003 or so when it was first kind of came into the aging world. There was a study that was published not long ago, a couple years ago, that was done in monkeys where monkeys were given a high sugar diet and high sugar plus high fat, which is a bad combo.

25:23 in this book is there's like over 900 different chemical compounds in like a variety of plants. He's a, as a plant specialist. There's another one called galantamine, which is in snowdrop flowers. things, to help them with their, to improve their memory. have the physiological response. So your brain's like, oh, I'm just going to stop making as much

28:16 I need to steal choline for this. Opioid painkillers. been shown when you when you give morphine drugs, you start to make less of it. And that's been shown So that's, you know, that's one of the problems. And interestingly enough, there's another type of opioid receptor called the kappa opioid receptor, which I think I've discussed with you before on one of the podcasts because kappa opioid receptor is sort of the opposite of the mu opioid receptor because it actually, when you make something in your body called dynorphin, it's responsible for a dysphoric feeling.

30:52 You feel uncomfortable. whoa, I'm getting a lot of this bad stuff. You want it back up and dynorphin activating that cap opioid receptor will do that. It's been shown in multiple studies, going to have a diverse, there's going to be diversity. So, you know, you're going to have become a carcinogen that we're exposed to all sorts of stuff like every day so activating those

34:14 Cauliflower. saliva, a little bit in our gut bacteria, but not much. And myrosinase is heat sensitive. So And so broccoli sprouts, I used to actually sprout them. And you put the seeds in and then you wet the bag. But then again, you know, at that, when I was doing, I've gone through so many different, I've never tried it in a smoothie. Let's finish the isothiocyanates, but that, it all has to do with these hormetic-

36:56 And they increase that by 10%, meaning that they're like doing good stuff. So if you just throw, allicin itself is not sensitive to heat, get the you'll harvest the more most allicin from it. That seems so strange. the enzymes have to get activated and then they chop it up but the nalicin is released so that Well, you talked about that MRSA case that you had. And I relay that to everybody because my friend Denny had a really bad case of MRSA. And I told him about your situation. He had it actually after you had been on the podcast the last time. And I told him his photo is insane. He's got a photo that I put on my Instagram page of his knee.

40:03 Was that what it was? It all depends. system and you excrete it and they also um they they uh do something in your brain so that they So I was rubbing it on there and taking an orally grape, grapefruit seed extract. reduce inflammation in the endothelial cells. with. We can talk about that later. I take a lot of curcumin. I take that every day. new to ronda uh where they take the curcumin and it's put in a phytosome which is sort of like a

44:11 But it also disperses the compound throughout. I just doubt that dispersing the molecules within the actual liposome makes that big of a difference. It's downhill it's pounding deceleration is that what it is running downhill is rough yeah it's actually That absolutely is subjective. so they check their mobility increase their mobility by like fourfold so they're actually

47:08 A big pile probably. Yeah, like a cue ball. They like they did some sort of force. I'd killed hundreds of mice You're a speciesist. So I would get their livers, Cause the consistency is like the same as beef liver. Well, here's the scary thing. So I, it was hard for me at first. start like breathing you know and trying to gasp for air and i just felt awful and so i'm just glad

50:17 I wasn't just like doing it for fun, but it was definitely a strange feeling to like feel that desensitized, sensitized where I'm like, whoa, wait, I've been doing this for like four years. Yeah, absolutely. The study I talked about on monkeys, they were given like 480 milligrams. And whether it's two milligrams or How did he not die of alcohol? really yeah whoa yeah i don't know i know he'll use his excuse keep drinking well clearly he's

53:07 And there's probably some health benefit as well lot to do with genetics and just binge or what else you're eating and just all these other things. to keep making usually when you're making when you make stress hormone your body's like oh i made Like, when I was young, I was really dumb. Well, at one point in time, I mean, I know that was in that movie, The Aviator, the Leonardo DiCaprio movie.

55:59 Where he played the asshole that ran the FBI. That was the thing that they used to, Nicotine. information information that's happening all the time like jamie's sitting over there he's doing overload so a cigarette can negate nicotine negates it for 15 minutes which is why some I'm just, that's my two cents. Like, it doesn't have some sort of a benefit?

58:24 Health benefits of nicotine. is there any robustness that would be a side effect of that? Kilogram? That's a lot of bok choy. Yeah. What does that look like? A lot. A kilogram is 1.2 pounds, right? Yeah, Google four kilograms, just kilograms to pounds. It wasn't hard to get, even with my stupid brain. Whoa. Massive amount. It's just overwhelming. And with the plants, it's really hard to get a huge dose.

1:02:12 like a small glass of wine, there is a slightly hormetic effect. Now, keep in mind, there are you go over that threshold you start to have a negative effect and that's that's with that's and their discipline has actually ruined them because they've gone too far. They started getting your body will, you will have a strong stress response, but you have to recover. You can't,

1:05:10 sense i mean that would that makes logically that makes sense and and not and even for some of these I'm interested in a lot of these other plant compounds. And that's been shown in mice, like if they're given really high dose, like 0.27% ursolic acid and 0.05% tomatidine. Well, these are now out in the market as nutraceuticals, farm nutraceuticals i guess you call them muscle

1:07:16 with it. mitochondrial biogenesis and shift muscle fibers to type 1, which are more endurance. vitamin E actually like, it's like a sponge. It like goes around and like stops. It's like, oh, They've been shown to increase heart attack and stroke risk. Well, it's non-steroidal anti-inflammatory, right? So when you stop that enzyme from doing that, then you're going to have

1:10:51 And also, it releases nitric oxide. So when you block that enzyme, you're blocking the And he'll take it before he runs. So there was like eight different clinical trials that were done. For menstruation. If you're chronically taking Yeah. So once a month is enough that you don't have enough time to recover from the damage. What I was getting at, would you be as concerned with someone taking ibuprofen once a month as you would be someone binge drinking once a month?

1:13:59 But this was big news. Yes. drug labels of all prescription non-steroidal anti-inflammatory. If I ever take it, which I rarely do, I always just, I'm a dummy. the exception of like, if I have, if there's some like surgery or something where I'm like, kind of my goal but she said it's been helping with her with her pain and also um she's noted particular study did i think it was subjective but they didn't know what they were getting it

1:17:54 You have so much shit stored up in your brain. The other question that I wanted to make sure that I asked you, because we talked about this through email, was I know that you've done a lot of work on the benefits of sauna and the heat shock proteins from sauna. The reason you release dynorphin is because it cools the body. on the mu opioid receptor, you have more of them. That endorphin that you released or that

1:19:38 the room, punching mirrors and shit. So I like flew off the bed and like hit the mirror, like with my butt and broke it. I don't know. I have no idea what I did. And so the YMCA has a sauna. And there were times where I would like I'll have to rethink this. Everyone always focuses on the detoxification and all that. Not really. It's 90 minutes at 104 degrees and you're doing physical yoga, even though it's not as hot as the sauna. It's 90 minutes at

1:22:50 dynorphin, you're getting the heat shock proteins, you're getting all that good stuff. that people try to avoid in life is discomfort. but i was just sprinting and i was like so i was doing it i was like oh this sucks this sucks but But when it's 50, the water is actually cold. I couldn't imagine why anybody would put themselves through something like that. But

1:26:04 I mean, it was like 180 degrees Fahrenheit. And it like the experience itself was amazing. Well, once you go in the ice bath and you go back into the sauna, like, and you're in into the literature you know i put i just recently put out a report and a podcast on cryotherapy and When you make melatonin, it actually starts to cool the body a little bit as well.

1:28:12 Doing the sauna sometimes can actually Probably not maybe maybe something else going on in the brain Right. out of REM sleep serotonin does takes you out so if you were going to take 5-htp you should take Sorry. So you could measure them in blood cells. that are going to isolate and look at the protein. Maybe even looking at gene expression Yeah, they contain about 10% of what a grape skin has.

1:32:00 now where my colleagues and I we've been looking we've been taking blood from other factors, which they are doing. But there are a lot of obese people. There are a lot of and they put sugar in it, which is. And who knows what other compounds that may be not maybe destroyed somewhat by the freeze dry. I don't really know. glucose response, like all the metabolic parameters. I'm specifically looking at people's damage to their DNA.

1:34:47 And people that are obese have like a twofold increased risk of multiple cancers. that people are so intent on receiving mouth pleasure, which is all it is. two diabetes, increased risk for cancer, increased risk of stroke, increased, you know, it's increased takes a lot of energy. stronger immune system yeah see that's one of the things that i had read like what

1:38:01 Someone who fell 20 feet. you know, Scroll down, to begin with, they are less likely to die from them than those who are underweight or even with healthy BMIs. Is this a farce? Oh, shut the fuck up. you know, heart disease and type two diabetes. It also is associated with massive inflammation. aren't getting laid and what exactly is premature i mean it's a completely relative and subjective term

1:41:12 Like, biologically speaking. But isn't that confusing when you see things like that, like in the Telegraph that probably got read someone. You want to say, look, we know mechanism. We know there's been studies that show that being there's a certain point, it's like this person probably gets defensive and doesn't want to hear It does. from shoving that cake in

1:44:22 it was to your immune system a nice big healthy meal. And I would still be hungry afterwards for sugar. Give me a cookie. refined sugars like something not a piece of fruit, which has the fiber matrix and So what it does is it traps ATP, which is the source of energy. your brain thinks you haven't been fed because the atp has been trapped it's called atp trapping

1:47:51 but the thing is is that um when it when the sucrose sees your gut your gut has something you take too much like magnesium or something people can get gut irritation it's a big bolus digested differently. I don't know. High fructose corn syrup. whatever they call that. There's some health organization in UK that did a press release eat that in a year.

1:50:42 grams of sugar. It's crazy. Oh, God. Everything. There's a particular type of gut bacteria that craves sugar and And so when you're, when you eat a fiber deficient diet, proteins, lipids, you know, Well, that can happen, but you don't have to have irritable bowel syndrome to have your a certain type of bacteria that can thrive on low fiber. are starting to grow in your small intestine. And what happens is when you have bacteria in your small intestine,

1:53:42 It's like a transient. and the consequences of what they're eating. I know. We don't even know all what each of them are eating. And all these different types of fiber are feeding different types of bacteria. I think there was a – now that I'm thinking about it, I think it was kind of like an infomercial. Yeah, it was really long, and it was disturbing.

1:56:41 Whoa, four times faster from sugar? You know, a spoonful of sugar Nobody warned them. you know so also you don't have a lot I was getting these headaches. And most people, if you don't have like rock-solid, determined mentality for this type of stuff, You have to have a rigid set of rules. like the ones that Jamie was eating over there, what does that have to do?

1:59:43 This fucker has 21 grams of sugar in it. Yep, exactly. Yeah, that's way too much. So I prefer plain, but sometimes the grape was all I had left. I might eat real healthy and say, I'm eating real healthy. Fucking 21? They're so yummy. I'm pretty sure less than four grams of sugar per bar, but it's mostly almonds and dark chocolate, Yeah. But even some of those have fucking sugar in them.

2:02:39 This is. All these fucking things at 15 or 19 or, yeah. taste like crap um and sprinkle a little bit. There's very little sugar in it. This little tiny thing has 22 crisps. You can eat berries, strawberries, all these things. They're delicious. And it's something that we've peach, a really good peach. Oh, my God. They're delicious. It's like we're naughty on top of the fact that we're we're eating

2:05:10 or you know but it's always fresh fruit and that's like they've been doing this for 50 years like It's anti-cancer. it pales in comparison to like glutathione related enzymes, we have superoxide dismutase, really? there's a certain gene polymorphism a tool that's like it costs five dollars i've talked about it before in your podcast and There it is right there.

2:08:49 There's no end. you know, the alcohol-induced damage as well, this little sequence of dna because you know what the sequence of the gene is. And it recognizes its complementary pair. And it goes in and it cuts And there's a radio that podcast on that as well. I listened to some of that. Well, first of all, that article that you're referring to from that, whatever website it was,

2:11:35 I don't have any vested interest in cryotherapy. can't breathe that stuff in. That's why your head is not under. If you do breathe that stuff in, cold okay so the one that she their face done. Apparently they get, or vain men too, or any man, well, you don't have to be vain debilitating arthritis pathways, antioxidant pathways, you know, and it's also last time, I think,

2:15:30 there's an infection here because that's normally what happens when you release TNF-alpha is because happening chronically. That's going to cause some tissue damage. It's going to cause pain. cryotherapy that I did last time we were here and you know so I've So you could take liposomal glutathione and that's great. So if you're taking it, liposomal glutathione,

2:18:27 like great i have all this glutathione sitting around in my cells that i've been taking It's an adaptive response. Yeah. Yeah. Your body's preparing for war. It's like, No skeptic. it was clear. I mean, after I, especially, especially after the two weeks of research, but they are in that loop where it's like, think there's a certain threshold where you just start to like you know you get to this like spiral

2:21:25 because there were not double-blinded placebo-controlled clinical trials. And I have to I'm going to read about this stuff, because I know, I've experienced it. One, it can shiver. because we did the crowd twice. So you adapt, and what happens is non-shivering thermogenesis. because the way you make the charge is by making energy. So when the charge goes there, your body knows, okay, I've been making energy. Because the way you make the charge is by making energy.

2:24:07 So you actually start to burn fat and you have this thermogenic, because you're burning fat, it's creating heat as a byproduct. adipose tissue by like 38 if they're exposed to 10 days of 50 degree air like outside air just They go, oh, my blood got too thin. and it's so complicated. So you've generated the inflammation and then now the cold is activating anti-inflammatory genes too early.

2:27:38 your bread and butter depends on you publishing. And so you're just constantly trying to get that I don't know what they're called. in between those, they actually have performance enhancements. You know, if they wait, sorry, other stress hormones. So it's been shown to improve that and having, being able to have the temperature change. So if you're sitting in cold water that's 57 degrees, that's not as cold

2:30:49 But listen, 20 seconds at 40 degrees versus two minutes. So the best way to handle it would be to wait at least an hour. inflammation when you have more of those. So cryotherapy does. And then also there's been Wow. And then you have the hardcore, very skeptical people that are like, well, the quality of data, you know. People have measured C-reactive protein.

2:34:16 but other things do it. Fish oil was shown to recently do that to increase brown adipose fat super cool i've been taking high doses official but yeah to answer your question that need the other ones. 30% of your brain is made of DHA. I mean, DHA is very important. But the thing is, is that There are vegan or vegetarian-friendly sources, which would be microalgae oil.

2:37:21 They're trying to figure out how can you be healthy and live a vegan diet getting the micro, they're getting the good micronutrients in plants, the magnesium, the vitamin K, the folate, vitamin C. And they're that vegans and vegetarians are more subject to being deficient in. It's bound to something called heme, which is a protein inside hemoglobin that's important for transporting oxygen to your tissues because you need oxygen to make energy. But the other thing

2:39:55 We have access to supplements. But what about animals that are herbivores? So every time they're eating whatever has the B12 on it, they're concentrating it. So there are certain types of bacteria that make B12, I think one of them just retired, And these clinical trials lasted two years, and there was two of them. And so what the trial was designed with these school kids, they were given a snack every single day for two years.

2:43:36 that did not get the meat. And they also, so that's all quantitative. They also, done on school children that have been deficient in certain micronutrients, and they were given a It's just, it's just synthetic B12. You can put it under your tongue. It's in spinach. vegetarian or vegan, multiplying by 1.8 is already important if you're just getting it from food,

2:47:10 if you're supplementing, it can cause, So this is supplemental iron, not iron from actual food-based sources. And it is very common. So even actually people, vegetarians that are eating a bunch of beans, legumes, vitamins that are soluble in fat are, the bioavailability is increased when you take it So taking it with fat because they are fat soluble.

2:50:35 get enough vitamin D, but vegetarians often think they're getting enough vitamin D because you make I was talking to Rich Roll about this because vitamin D supplements, D3, the plant form is D2. think that's vegan friendly but there is there is a a type of algae, lichen, that makes vitamin D. Pull that up, lichen. It is kind of weird looking. this is definitely not algae.

2:53:02 if they do want to eat vegan, They just exist in really low doses in most plant-based proteins. Right. Well, there's some of the weird vegan arguments that they repeat almost as if it's fact, And so if they have a high saturated fat and a low poly or monounsaturated fat intake, And so they don't actually have those negative effects. cardiologist. And he's actually one of the guys that discovered a test to measure

2:57:03 which prevents cholesterol from being recycled. So it's not, that's why she has high cholesterol. She has high cholesterol because she has gene polymorphism in the APOE4, which prevents cholesterol from being recycled. So it's not, that's why she has high cholesterol. So she gene polymorphisms, two, people are now starting to tease apart that it's actually the combination

2:58:20 So this totally makes sense. When you talk about the amount of heart disease that exists in Sedentary lifestyle, all those things. So, you know, these studies, like you have to really carbohydrates do you take in? How many, you know, they're all going to be not eating vegetables and Well, those genes get turned on by polyunsaturated fatty acids. if they're eating a lot of saturated fat and they have one of those polymorphisms,

3:00:52 may actually not be a problem, but. And cholesterol in and of itself is not a bad thing. Yes, exactly. It's so funny because so many people think it does. So you start to make cholesterol. can raise triglycerides and things. It's crazy. Foundmyfitness.com. I talk all about that. Stick to one brand. And I'm really, really appreciative that you do these.