Joe Rogan Experience #817 — Jason Hairston & Brendan Burns Transcript

Transcript

0:00 couple hours and yeah we got the gun what's up gentlemen how are you good thanks for having us what I like about your company is there's not a lot of people that take what you guys do, I found out about you guys from my friend, Matin Putelis, who works for Meat Eater. the most technical most ridiculously engineered hunting clothes. You would say, well, what the fuck?

1:46 And it's fascinating to me. And came up with the concept, introduced it in 06 to the hunting market, Totally. They're like, what well what is that one of the reasons why i want to have you guys on People think of hunters as Bubba, rednecks, driving around drinking beer, It's where we live and breathe. It's why I train every day. It's what my focus is in my life and

4:09 where you also have a lowest common denominator kind of guy that you're associated with. I mean, we argue that it's a different format than even outdoor gear. over the extreme engineering involved I was listening to one of the podcasts where you talk about your Excel sheet that you make, performance and we found the same to be with with what we're doing on backpack hunts i mean every

6:28 And this is one of the things that I wanted to kind of highlight about this pursuit. It really does. I mean, you have to be really well got to survive to A to B. I mean, you have to thrive We're seeing stuff that nobody would ever go see. And it defines for Brennan and I and for people in the company and people associated with the and it's an animal that lives in places that we you know we can visit but we can't live there

9:20 I had a tag in Alaska in the Chugach a little ways over from there. I mean, we went 37 miles in up uh up to two two forks of a glacier and i mean we And you want to see if you can match with this animal. This idea that it's a bunch of people that like killing animals you're like Brendan mentioned a berry picker and it's in our DNA if you're a hunter and to be able to test that against the toughest conditions against the hardest animals to hunt in the most

11:37 It's really challenging. Because I had watched shows What's so hard? right and then you're and then you and you see it with people you take out for the first time It's something that never gets old. so hunting is one thing that is just throughout your entire life, It never gets easy. having learned from Sitka selling to retailers the limits of what we could

15:19 Now, every time I go, there's stacks and boxes of shit because I do like all my shopping online. I could see the downfall. with no one there to explain The internet's made it happen. What is the best, most nutrient-dense foods, most nutrient-dense supplements? Let's figure out a cost what is the best most most nutrient dense foods most nutrient No, no.

17:24 your jacket at home, but it's a a faulty model it doesn't make sense if you're a guy like you that someone who's like deeply, deeply involved in the product Yeah. Yeah, the whole transparency thing has been incredible to watch. And it created this massive following. I mean, you walked in and said, giving them the power to make the decision, they ate it up.

20:39 That's why I think it was a brilliant move to blog about it in between the time of building people told me, cool idea, but how are they going to find you? Well, they spend more money than they're bringing in. You become obsessed with it. And it's great. I mean, people we meet and hunters we meet or at hunting camp or traveling, obsessed with something but doing it to the utmost because if you do that then

23:32 We've used that stuff in those places. of what that's given back to you but you really don't laboratory data you can look at all the test results of of what they've figured out how to make their yarn stretch and recover with no So you know it, right? to make this stuff so light and like it it stretches a little bit and it yeah and it of how they make their yarn the stretches recover that elastic so why are they making this fabric

26:56 thing that you guys are doing just figure out what is the best way to do this that's how they do it and having processes that continue to produce high-quality products and materials over time. And we're able to find their limits because of our customers and what they use it for. I mean, they'll commit themselves to fixing issues that we'll find. And they listen, and they go back and try to re-engineer it to figure out how to push the bar further so those failures don't happen.

29:28 and we'll put it through certain tests depending on the product, savages. That's why I'm excited about this. Not doing it well. So you have this product launch, The woven look you see on carbon fiber. And it has the fiber has to go up and over other fibers. So you want to have a certain amount of flex. We're the only one in the world that produces one,

32:21 Jamie's always on the ball. So that's spread toe there in a bidirectional format. we will cure that mold or that resin into an actual part, in the center portion of the frame. the strongest part and so the the new spread toe what it does is it it makes it tighter smaller It's a flex issue? For people that are listening to this, they're probably not going to understand

35:41 Rigidity. It's what will pull the weight Totally different. And that's something I think There's a lot to it. pack on a treadmill. Um, so I'm able, I'd spend a ton of time in our packs with various weights So how do you get a pack that can do both? out right like if you have a large yeah if you have a hundred pounds and it's sitting in a two all that kind of stuff, and stand up, and then your load lifters and all the way up.

39:19 which are the straps that come off the top of the pack down to your shoulder straps, Right, exactly. I've fitted guys that like them way up. I mean, I work second I get up in the morning until the time I go to bed. Because there's a big gap. Well, you know, I mean, it's got to get tested. its own thing when work is sort of its own thing too, because you can call it, you can call it work, but if you love something, it's not really work like showing up at the garbage depot and,

42:22 Yeah. And it is an art form. like a passion project it is it truly is everything from the product to the brand building to the You're not a public company. Yeah. you need a co i'm like for for what right so we can slow down our process so we can change the There's a lot of podcasters today that are joining in with these gigantic networks, They're going to ruin everything.

45:33 Yeah. Certainly not twice a week. Well, do that. Well, when I met Brendan, I met him this past weekend in Bozeman. on main street in bozeman i went to the store just to see that bull i i was like we got to stop in i which is two antler i mean it's it's heavy and giant like unusually big they're just it just So, the Roosevelt elks are the ones that have the biggest bodies, the the roosevelt elk have the by far the biggest bodies yeah but not the biggest

48:45 you know finding the animal and it's also one of the things that's important about this like the the time you know just just having the time to know, I spent a decade of my life putting a boot track everywhere you could put one, finding where every elk was in my state and looking for the biggest ones. photos of that thing on the ground. Should I email it to you?

50:46 And that was so different for me. For 10 years, that thing has been spreading those superior genetics, and it's probably been forcing a lot of other males to get the fuck off the mountain. Yeah, the new Alistair might be a better fighter, actually. get them. I mean, that's, that's the beauty of it. I mean, like you never get to the point where Where, where's he going? What's his next move? Like, I mean, I've had bulls where I've hunted,

53:48 It's amazing. Better than you used to be. know of getting the biggest one i find it the most challenging thing i've ever done but um you know i The weird thing about that is I was talking to a guy who was doing an article for the New York Times and he said, I don't have a problem with hunting common denominator guy you hear about one horrible thing going on or somebody that doesn't take the

56:39 we that's what i ate and like i said i never my parents never bought meat yeah the exception More suffering, exactly. And all the pesticides and everything else that goes into it. But to me, the purest pursuit of it is what you're talking about. mind-blowing to me because it's been such a big part of my life and everyone I'm associated with like yeah it's you know i took him through like the wanton waste laws and and all that and he was

59:51 This is where they came from. That all goes away. Not actually the last 50. And it's all how it's said, too. You could also say it was processed. it's not one of those things that's pretty and people really love to hear that but at the end are not there and that you can just turn something loose and just let it run its course and and you where it was like an anniversary of the death of Cecil

1:03:12 so now they're going to kill them and make no money. generate to shoot those and I know guy I mean I know booking yeah I talk to him all the time on their revenue. It feeds a lot of the people that are over there. It makes a huge impact on their economy. And a lot of people don't like that, but I urge people to watch the Louis Theroux And if it wasn't, this place is so poor and so crazy that these animals would have been wiped out.

1:05:01 And people get put off by the fact that people enjoy the pursuit. Like this is something that is built in yeah you want to do like this is if you do eat meat, just to experience it. It's like you talked about that disconnect. out there about the processing of meat and all these people up in arms about it i'm like that's And it depends on the situation, too.

1:08:08 But yeah, it's not supposed to be that cheap to eat life. Like, look at the prices. do it right and all that stuff. And, you know, in arms because I think there is People don't get to see it. And I think the reasonable people who love animals But if you want to procure meat, that's the best way to do it. I understand where they're coming from. good but in reality you're just bullshitting yourself yeah but they don't even know they're

1:11:49 boulder and uh i lived next to an ashram and the lady that ran the ashram this buddhist ashram It's so little, they don't care that it hits your kitchen floor. Yeah, it's weird. Are you a big ant fan? Cool. Yeah. Got to check it out. They'll circle each other and spiral. Yeah. I mean, look at this. That's amazing. And a few of them are going the wrong way.

1:14:10 Jamie, see if you can find out the actual exact reason for it. they build a beehive they do this they change like a friend of mine was Ben There's no decision making. It's just what they do. I forget which one. I'm like, it's, What a trip, huh? other and next thing you know, they're all dead. and there's no way to live a life where you're not killing other life it's there's this constant

1:17:11 like the anthropomorphizing of animals and Disney movies and things along those lines. a four-year-old son and he watched this little show called the lion guard which is like and all You know, it's like, and now, like, when it comes up, he's like, well, that's just pretend. No, man, that ain't what's going on. mean, that's all they eat is meat. They're not like a black bear or any other bear that can eat

1:19:42 have you ever seen that zoo in Iraq that they had when before we invaded Iraq they they had zoos where you doing yeah exactly what is a zoo trust me the lion wants to hunt. That's what they live for. Oh, yeah. It's not that weird to be fascinated by that and for those guys to look at that and go, Like there's an instinct to, like, listen to those guys laughing while it's happening because they're filming it right through the fence and go, wow, a bunch of assholes laughing at death.

1:22:06 The amount of time he has to choke. Yeah. Yeah, a little different. weird we're real weird they like to draw the line on certain things for whatever reasons no it But at the end of the day, I mean, nothing's going to change with us either. that was like that you know growing up being a hunter like to kill this huge elk was yeah i was I want to keep the strap after every year.

1:24:36 First year. it's it's dead i mean it means it means nothing it's it's been but back in the day it was i mean and i met him in the booth and he's like you're that kid that killed that big elk on to create the most finely engineered like to the extreme products like what he's doing you're smart enough to recognize smart people yeah yeah i was like i was like man i don't yeah

1:27:29 you know it's it's been awesome i mean that's and so so yeah he said he's basically i'm looking If someone's making the craziest grandfather clock in the world and I see this guy that's The one thing is I wouldn't say I'm necessarily the best at doing super intricate things or knowing exactly how to get there. I mean, it's like it's I always tell people people at what we do, it's exactly what you think it is.

1:29:20 That's disturbing to me. These are the best clothes. our gloves or whether it's carbon fiber for our bat our packs we had our designer down at stanford meet with a carbon fiber scientist down there that's working on some leading edge technologies And ultralight means performance in the mountains. diet routines or things like that on your website and sort of shaping people's ideas about

1:32:17 Just haven't done it yet. demanding this is. you know you have to be on on point in the mountains too i mean you have to be sharp you I mean, yeah, physically fit, there's lots of different stuff. and you're just trying to kind of maintain the best possible shape that they can get in. It's now what I use. hunt just for the mental strength as much as the physical part of it because you get beat down on

1:35:51 get picked up and taken out and we hear about it all the time from from clients and customers so just getting to ease into it, right. And I mean, you a hunt, I go right back into my training. But for a lot of guys that are just getting to it, ease into it. But being fit enough and having your feet in good enough shape and your boots broken. It's like, boy, that is an unbelievably difficult thing to do all day, every day, for several days at a time.

1:37:53 or whatever that is there's no substitute for spending time in a pack with weight there just in the fall, and I was fucking dead. something like this? There isn't one specific to what we're doing. And I think it's a great idea oh my God, Right. as far as our food. and, um, getting away from the dehydrated meals so much stuff you get really creative with it i've been i've been kind of building my own like

1:40:37 Like that's the beauty of it is like you can train all you want to do. At the end of the day, you're going to be working on the deficit. off way more than you're taking in yeah you're going to be a calorie deficit no matter what and It's just like you just got to dig deep. It's, it's never easy. Two pounds a day. Yeah, I'll bring supplements. Have you tried a pro bar?

1:43:11 And so I believe now, for me at least, and what I recommend to our customers is bring food you like now that you love. Yeah, I mean, a lot of it with the food is you got to try it out early. them function better for me. Like I don't like any of the red sauce. I don't like, don't ever you know it freaks them out. Because they don't know. Because I've been in places, you know, and it's kind of funny.

1:45:49 that you could take with you when you're that's one of the reasons why i wanted to ask you guys For 10 days. And, I mean, it's not like you're sitting around like, oh, man, I'm ready to get something to eat. down to packets we have a i have broken down per day so i have a ziploc bag with my day and how big for a few days? there's a new product see,

1:48:21 uh you know you can see you see what all the ingredients are it's ketogenic and uh it's all got you know cacao it's got turmeric cinnamon sea salt maca honey grass-fed And this made a really big difference. And with a lot of my friends have gone on as your testosterone goes up It's really interesting and new stuff that's coming out is that these guys that are taking

1:50:16 You watch a bear, what he eats first, all the fat off the fish before he even eats the It's 100% the sugars. uh new studies that show better ways to eat and that's the fun thing about what we're doing is Oh. and actually Gore-Tex before they had licensed us and invested in us, Go with the gut. Right? Yeah, fear is good. tournaments that i ever fought in i was not nervous i was too confident and i just performed

1:53:00 There's no thought about bills. I'm a big fan of Luke Rockhold. he walked knocked him out such a great sport is that his first knockout too in the ufc it's his and a bunch of other people that he trains. What's going on the doctor saying don't move like oh shit. What happened motherfucker? And then your ego leaves you alone. Yeah, you've got to be.

1:55:13 Have you come live yet? Go Hunt, yeah. Yeah, so Lorenzo and I are buddies,hew Owns GoHunt GoHunt yeah Coming up next weekend Wait I need to build Can you really can yes the corner guys are mic'd up so you can you can hear like someone saying oh you know his this training and grinding and all of a sudden and then every now and again you get to step in

1:57:37 Those aren't the real guys. they might catch you and knock you out and beat your ass, And those guys are some of the nicest, most down-to-earth people you're ever going to meet They do. You know know TJ and Chad are carson palmer is a quarterback for the uh cardinals i literally don't follow any other sports It's this metal trophy thing that you get for playing football in college,

2:00:00 It's all he wants to do when he when he's done playing football. cooking up a deer backstrap that you know you had to get out of the mountains yeah i love your Yeah. better when you eat it it really does well it's flat out better for you, too. Oh, that's cool. Fire and meat? No, it really is. Yeah. We've got three haircuts for one this morning, by the way, if you haven't noticed.

2:02:48 Yeah, like, chefs like Anthony Bourdain, he took me hunting in Montana recently. And then also something that people don't do, I think, enough of with wild game, And how long do you age it for? How come it doesn't stink after 10 days in your fridge? What you do with any meat, yeah. You cook it medium-rare. My brother went to culinary school. You take a piece of backstrap, put it in the fridge with a little bit of soy sauce

2:05:21 put his fridge in a fridge at his house for 30 days and then it's the best it is so a ph for people don't know is a professional hunter which and it can sit there for it'll be you'll be amazed at how long you can age it and how good it is when That it has to drain. The other way, if you don't have a rack, you can take. in a pan and get stuff off of a pan.

2:07:07 You know what I like to do? I was at a camp. i mean it's just that's it yeah right you just want to sear it no one will ever know how good but top ramen seasoning is fucking good it's fucking good i used to eat that stuff and i get and shot a mule deer and then we ate the liver that night, Yeah. Hardest place in the world to get a tag. See if you can find this, because it's pretty funny.

2:10:26 I'm not doing that. When we shot an elk, I was cutting the heart out. If it's a bow and arrow, you don't have to do that that, you know? No, you don't. You get that weird where you guys are. I mean, Your hat's on backwards. Yeah, this is one of the... to eat the contents of that sack. really important factor in And he spells it out so well. uh, I mean, it's going on.

2:13:36 I mean, those sheep were planted back in there in the 1970s. And that's also an interesting thing, these auction tags, which is really weird, And there was, yeah, a guy paid $485,000. you're a billionaire if you've made a ton of money and you care about wildlife and you love to hunt That is one of the biggest examples of it is how much money goes into helping these animals and habitat preservation and reintroducing them to areas.

2:16:28 That's what he loves to do. It's not, it's not some rich guy paying to, you know, put a head on his three guides so do you did you guys scout in advance and find that was a unique that was a and it was all of a sudden you know we let a few guys know that hey there's not an unusually big mean it's a it was a smart old ram. It was just a really cool deal.

2:19:07 We I mean a resident hunter with a sheep tag with a sheep tag. Yeah, they do it on purpose. Yeah, I think so It does. That's crazy. No. Yeah, I mean, they have a tough life. if you'd never heard of her, seen it before, probably blow you away. Like if they landed on Mars, if they landed on Mars and all of a sudden there was a desert and the cow decides it's going to headbutt this ram.

2:21:54 tell it's hard to tell it's a blurry ass picture or blurry ass video but just this tiny little Yeah, oh, for sure. Look at this collision. You're talking about the balls. a bighorn sheep. Look at the balls. Look at the balls And that echoes for like the sheep I hunted last fall. I got up. There it is. I'm going to get behind you and kick you in the balls.

2:24:30 No timeouts. Something's going to hit those things. Where you lose your mind? Yeah. No wonder their balls are so big. Like when the rut's over, like we went moose hunting in BC last year. They're all just running around trying to, trying to score. Yeah. Yeah. All cows. it's been for so long does it don't you feel like It's from the smell. outsmarted something that's 10 million years where the genetics and you got it fair you know especially

2:28:30 The power of scent is crazy. Yeah. get them if they were defenseless. ground and like hide from hunters and let hunters walk right by him like within yards wow and just He's like, Once a year. Yeah. The fact that you can go up there and backpack and camp and yeah but if you if you go out there nothing happens like uh hiking's a elk, it's a 10. Yeah. But if you go out there and nothing happens, like, oh, who's next?

2:31:12 If you don't see the animals, it's like a five. You know? How many do they give out? one sheep yep you had one the entire unit yep he showed me the picture of it when he drew the tag I was like, I'm so glad I'm not that sheep right now when you drew that tag. of the life expectancy of a sheep you know it's a 500 square mile area i'm going in there as long as it takes 500 square miles to hunt one sheep you know mind-blowing that's pretty

2:33:16 I mean, I put on a crazy amount of money. Two tags. Oh, I mean, 24 days hunting. I hunted 24 days. How many total days were you hunting? I mean, 24 days hunting. Right? 10 miles apart in distance and he had the same two sheep with him so all of a sudden i'm like And they're keeping an eye on their back for them, and they kind of show them around. So I, you know, basically knowing enough about sheep behavior, I was like,

2:36:25 every single sheep in the area i counted almost 50 more sheep than the biologist thought was alive in those young rams about 23rd day. I said, I heard him popping heads, started glass and cutting the just told me i gotta go walk the dog yeah fucking hike in 10 hours it's funny i call and pack it I got to go. Yeah, I left. You sleeping all night, honey?

2:38:48 Yeah. thanks for doing what you're doing like i said I love when people are just fucking going for it innovation my pleasure all right only place in the world you can get it there it is folks good night