Joe Rogan Experience #835 — Louis Theroux Transcript

Transcript

0:00 shy yeah we feel professional with headsets on and we're live welcome back louis oh thank you about Scientology is the overabundance of material, you know, because there's just so One, because it's their team. He was very damaged. she didn't get into Scientology she would have been successful in the whole package and uh as far as hubbard goes he was an only child he was a fantasist a lonely guy who

4:28 No. He was also abusive to his wife, wives, I think, plural. You were, you acquitted your service in the Navy very creditably. It was all these sort of lies Yes, absolutely. It's pretty clear when you see the people that have tried to leave it and, you celebrity in which you're exposed only to the best sorts of treatment, you're given kind of You know, when you see him when they had the happy birthday thing for him and he's dancing

8:30 God, I don't know, man. erecting potemkin villages everywhere you went do you know what i mean yes nothing would feel quite Yeah. Basically, you are a kind of broken, deceitful, devious character. to investigate the truth what happened in Scientology, this was explained to me by one of our sources in the film, a guy called Marty Rathbun, who was very high up in Scientology. He said something could be working

11:54 I mean, now Mormons, I don't know how they got around it. floating in the sky, and we're hurling through infinity, and what is this all about, this strange spinning ball that's floating in the sky and we're being has ever and wrote bad books. I mean, he's a bad writer. I haven't read any of his books. I've tried to read Dianetics several times. know why why do people sabotage themselves why do i get lazy why do i not fulfill some of my goals

13:51 Yeah, I was doing okay. I was alone in my apartment in North Hollywood, probably lonely, trying to figure things out. It was all about improving yourself. That, in essence, is auditing. If you read the Bible, it's got loony stuff in it, but it's got passages of transcendent poetry And every time you hear that record, it sort of this sort of pavlov mixed with

16:45 And that gives some people comfort. If you know that these are the rules and you don't have to place to live those are pretty that's a pretty much a universal truth you know we go off and meet her ex-husband, who's now no longer in Scientology. And he describes her as a work, they become toxic and dangerous. But one of the funny things is once you have Scientology light, it's called the Indy movement, independent Scientology.

20:23 fundamentalist controlling side, you get something a bit wishy-washy that's more or less indistinguishable from many other self-help creeds. A lot of them you don't see. You see these towering, shiny buildings. by jay peterman you know like the catalog company and it has sort of old by Jay Peterman, you know, like the sort of swept up in this narrative

23:24 And I went to the Vatican recently, and one It's called St. Peter's, isn't it? I'm sure. they're hard to interview, because it's actually a crime to, to glorify terrorism is what it's When you start coming at them with some kind of humanistic, secular, liberal sort of view of life, Yes. us. So who told you? Yes. Yeah, you're like, I don't have a book.

27:24 the last few hundred years And I don't want to be kind of basing it on that. You know, did you hear that Twitter yesterday banned 235,000 Twitter handles? Would that all be Islamic? I don't agree with what he said, but if you really pay attention to what he said, it was very sketchy that they banned him. He flamed everyone. He called them fat and ugly and disgusting. And what he's saying

29:31 Yeah, well, there you go. What is their council? that is basically also a corporate entity, right? for the right to be offensive right and around the same time trolling became a buzzword and it and people have the right to be offensive. No, Writers' Union. Yes. funny some of it didn't seem that funny. Yeah. Even L. Ron Hubbard would agree with that.

35:10 An SP, suppressive person. He loved, they dress up in naval uniforms and he loved things like little bulletins or anything that felt kind of quasi-military. being kind of spiritual or religious yeah and i'm talking the way they style themselves the It's like when people talk about cars or anything where there's a surface knowledge that most And you're like, oh, he knows.

37:32 It's like Bush saying you're either with us or against us. And that whole idea, if you're not part of the solution, they throw them into a volcano. that are unveiled. died on a cross for your sins, believeth in him, and you will be saved and go to heaven. Thetan, yeah. So to begin with, going clear was originally the best thing you could do. And then

40:37 You're going to learn what happens at OT3. And if you think, you know, no more than I'd force a Jewish guy to eat pork or tell a Rastafarian to cut his hair. their their scripture and there's an amazing moment in the documentary the hbo documentary and then there's a handwritten kind of piece of parchment inside that secret squirrel stuff is very appealing yeah i forgot about secret squirrel yeah

42:56 That's the term they use for spirit. Which you can in Buddhism, I think. when you know the source of all of it, and yet they ignore it, Yes, I have seen Showgirls. He knew, I think he knew what he was doing. is her name elizabeth berkeley berkeley yeah and uh the other guy from um i can't remember blue She literally starts having spasms. Oh, well, I've seen the movie, so yes, I must have.

46:07 But, you know, I read an interview with the director of Battlefield Earth. even he didn't really check out what he was what the gig was well that was a product of John because you just can't, Like there's a famous one want to be in the video or it becomes embarrassing to have someone speak can you imagine if leah I know that in who identify as Jedi

49:02 I just, it's amazing to me that this exists uh i understand that it if not immune to but at least highly resistant to um any attempt to discredit or undermine so i i WikiLeaks and whatnot. And interestingly, in 1950, the year that Dianetics was published was also the first year that McDonald's was established. money because they're just getting rents from the people who are who are selling the scientology

52:31 exempt religion. The government essentially caved under the threat of massive amounts of lawsuits. But then again, I mean, the benchmark for having charitable status is not that high. where they pack hundreds of Scientologists into an auditorium. So they get huge amounts of money for that. large donations, basically. There's a guy called Bob Duggan who's a multi-billionaire who's donated literally tens of millions.

55:40 like one of its most famous supporters. It's one of this – it's this video where they say – he goes, welcome to Scientology. He's just like, I'm done. And so they get a certain amount of services for free. I go, what does that mean? And then he starts expressing what it means And then you find out, actually, footnote, there's this other thing you have to deal with.

58:28 And I'd been fascinated with Scientology going back to the late 80s when I was a student. and um and so then i remember halfway through I thought, well, this was funny for 10 minutes. really interested. You know, they took me on a tour of the Celebrity Center. They strung me along And actually, you know, I've done whatever, you know, big game hunting or the Westboro Baptist Church or gurus in India.

1:00:54 And I didn't want it to be a kind of So they were like, this is how, yeah, this is how you do it. And this is what Scientology is. So then it becomes this sort of whole... They did one on Larry Wright. is a serious journalist you know, what is so, what is, it's just another religion. Because their view, as you mentioned, is that if you're a suppressive person,

1:04:13 Do you think that all this data, this accumulative data, reaches any of the members that are inside Scientology? Yeah, kind of. All I know now thetans are spirits, They're encouraged to be off the you know, don't consume anything you think might be critical. They're encouraged to be off the internet. plenty of extremely Giovanni Ribisi is a nice guy.

1:06:08 Yeah. I don't know who that is. Yeah, that guy's in? to reaching the masses. about it. But if you'd gone undercover and you would have been such a great scalp for them. And it went and it didn't pan out. I think there'd be, and when i was doing the film They're good people, many of them. You know, I kind of lost confidence. Unenthusiastic he's just it seemed like something they required him. They suppose you i got was very unenthusiastic he's just it seemed like something

1:10:12 and did he say like, is there a prior or something? Yeah. like it's actually a powerful tool because it's like it's all about i'm i'm he's like when you look where it's a sort of a big chunk of it that feels kind of valid and normal maybe even therapeutic but when you tip Yeah. Big time. So I think in some ways they've got something to say that makes some sort of sense.

1:14:33 Really? i said what well what have you done i, I did a few sessions of CBT, the door hit you on the way out oh wow so they're not interested in treating people that have had on the internet about cases where there's been people who had mental illness, she's done in detail in, or maybe longer and died in the hands of the Scientologists. people in the who were attempting to you know take care or holding her hostage depending on

1:17:40 She had gone undercover to sort of investigate them. I mean, the auditing I did, I only did one session. Marty Rathbun left in 2004 or thereabouts. It's the inner sanctum. and we're still going to be in the sea orc anyway so it's really important to get that distinction It's in the desert. They've just refurbed it and they've opened it. Apparently, at one point in time, they were the number two real estate holders in Los Angeles.

1:21:24 But I think a lot of that is to do with, someone explain this to me. Yeah, that's totally understandable. Maybe it was 27 years, but I think he said 27 years. planets uh what is his medals for look at all his medals no that that thing that might be some of Like, that's special occasions. and then there's... he says, don't you... Like Boniardi, like his girlfriend at the time, he says,

1:24:07 Anyway, so he went out with a woman called Nazanin Bonyadi for a while. Thank you. You're glib, Matt. I don't think I need Scientology if I've got caveman nitro. What is emulsified MCT oil? the best stuff. Did we just do a commercial? I've never even heard of that But your original question. There's COB. This is such, this is once he blew, once he left,

1:27:09 you want to talk about a guy it was hilarious I'm ready to do it right now. I had conversations with her, and she even sent me a gift. Get the fuck out of here they're pretending to me, but I'm not sure. You know that actor-y thing? And I was watching. that's part of what they do is sort of it's a kind of weird love bombing i don't know maybe He remembers your name.

1:30:29 It's very nice. But wait a minute. So much. vaccinated them. A few of those exist, but for the most part, most people are vaccinated You know, the cult of health, the cult of glowing, smiling beacons of health and humanity marching up and down. But when we see horrible things in the news and negative things, Bukowski. reactive mind it's a malfunctioning part of your mind it's a pseudo-scientific thing whereas

1:34:46 advanced past those days of youth and foolish behavior. self-diagnosing and self-treating and if that's what they're doing as well, it's like, like, And I think that the things that annoy you the most about yourself, I don't know that it's necessarily the case. out there like um i mean whether that maybe he was spiraling out i mean there's allegations that he

1:37:21 And so he had a sort of ocean-going religion where they were kind of traveling around. And then for a while he was in England and then for a while he was in what was then Rhodesia, what is now Zimbabwe, sort of trying to find a niche, like find a kind of new frontier that he could more or less make for his own kind of claim for Scientology. But then even when he came back, he was so caught up in lawsuits in the last 10 or 15

1:38:13 The Paul Thomas Anderson film. I think he had a screening for Tom Cruise, I've heard several things. that he's very focused line on if would you if tom cruise is interviewed on a chat show you feel he should be asked about The Edge of Tomorrow? I really enjoyed it. And it felt refreshing after seeing so many kind of Cruise as Ubermensch films, Oh, that's interesting.

1:41:18 Oh my God, how ironic. Yeah. Yeah, I do. And I met him as well when his wife was on the show, and he was very nice. Well, that would be a real problem. It's, you know, it's an unfortunate aspect of... I don't know if they're telling the truth or if they're just exploiting a possibility. and this is a reality if tom cruise I don't think there's anyone who's been able to pull that off.

1:44:43 Yeah. A perfect example of another religion that was most obviously created by a con man is Mormonism. they are very nice you whatever you sit against mittney, I'm glad he's not the president. I think what Trump has is, He says crazy things. He talks about how big his penis is. I mean, he, I mean, the, the run up to and who, moreover, when he said stupid, crazy stuff,

1:48:13 First of all, Romney probably doesn't drink beer. Yeah. Happy Cinco de Mayo. That's fucking crazy. Yes, yes. And also, he doesn't necessarily represent, for a lot of people, he doesn't, like, one contradictory well it's fun for us it's fun for us it's interesting it's fun for us and also he Romney's family. I know who you mean. Let's just go over there.

1:51:17 I mean, it's like a scene from The Walking Dead. Right now. during the campaign trail. that means they're not just a part of a cult, So we did not allow him to run our great nation. No, because he has dual citizenship because his mother was something. Well, in my book, no. He was one of the biggest proponents of the idea that Obama was not born in America.

1:53:38 Founded ISIS. That Obama had started ISIS. And it was a terrible mistake. He said it three times. He's a pro-wrestling candidate. And there was only one way to find out. That is like, even the way the audience is yelling nuance. There's no subtlety. There's no You can't have thought, when this started, you couldn't have thought that this would get this far.

1:57:29 I find it fascinating. It's not business as usual. that money goes and how ambiguous it is and how that hasn't been investigated. He's right. He's Trump- I thought Weld was the libertarian candidate. No. I agree with what you said about it took an orange-haired casino magnate with pathological lying issues to point out the truth about all these people felt. But now that people, you're almost saying by continuing representative

2:00:43 maybe drop mushrooms everywhere or something. What is it like behind closed doors? Here are the threats in terms of terrorism, in terms of these different dictatorships that are seeking to gain nuclear arms. Dignity of a guy who speaks very well and a guy who is smarter than most people that you know true feelings on things like you you've got to kind of play it as much down the middle.

2:03:19 Like it's, But to go to your point about whether people are stupid or not, I think that's an unkind way of phrasing it. Let's vote for a change. Like, I feel as though it's easy to go along with the group think, but I was in favor of staying in Europe. And the way in which Bernie Sanders was marginalized, I think, They had to figure out how to have people in your various states and various counties

2:06:22 And it's designed for back when people were illiterate They can tweet. And it's disturbing. So it does seem it has all the hallmarks of a broken system, I would say. people get a better sense of what you know, what they would like, So it's it's it's so complicated to have a two party system and try to pretend that there is a real democracy that is.

2:10:24 time, crazy shit can come out. And it seems, I mean, I've read in and then November. That's a lot of time. And in that time, crazy She's just not. I mean, it's pretty clear when you compare many things to what she said versus the actual facts. She's just going forward, and it's very bizarre. I made a program on that subject. was about uh people you know inevitably it's about the relationships that they're in and the way in

2:13:28 and then I met them 10, 15 years later, and their life was a mess. it's kind of designed for and anything else especially prolonged continued abuse like that You think Hillary may have a TBI, a traumatic brain injury? Like, what made her black out when she fell down and hit her head? very archaic. I think it's just not the best we can do. And I think we're just going to continue

2:15:53 USA, USA. we have advanced radically since the 1700s. If you look at the way we approach education, That is dumb. But that's great because that's a great metaphor for the human brain in a way and kind of a big thought to carry us as we sort of draw to the close of our interview. whether for good or ill more more efficiently and more effectively. I think that we're more advanced and more safe now than ever before.

2:18:30 I mean, chances are you wouldn't be Joe Rogan. Who the hell knows? to their own group. Like we're talking about with Scientologists who don't go on the internet, don't take any Well, and it's that's it isn't it because you don't want to you know, if I can quote Nietzsche of us against them And I think the Scientologists, a religion, whatever the fuck you want to call it. Ideologies become problematic when you can't

2:21:56 But the more you kind of become a mirror image of whatever they're projecting, you reinforce them in their position as well. you as um an enemy of god or suppressive or however they characterize it if you actually Maybe their film will be out and we can plug their documentary. in just a little bit with Hannibal