Joe Rogan Experience #846 — Michael Shermer Transcript

Transcript

0:00 Three, two, one, boom! Michael Shermer is here, ladies and gentlemen, again, and we've been talking about silly people for the past 15 minutes. they're saying, Jamie, the flat earthers? We're going to talk about the flat earthers for one reason. The reason why I wanted to bring this up is because I think there's a lot of folks out and a lot of these videos on all sorts of different conspiracies

1:39 The ancients knew, the Greeks knew, Columbus knew, everyone knew then that it was round. If you see an eclipse, like a lunar eclipse, you can see the Earth's shadow on the moon. You know, now their explanation, the flat earthers, is that, yeah, it's round like a pizza, but a round, flat pizza, and all the continents are on the one flat face side up.

2:59 can't help but think, okay, they don't believe it. And, you know, it's hard to tell. That's good. and if you put these little sticks in the ground with markers on them and you get a little telescope like a um a surveyor's scope and you line it up you can see that it bends so at each point the And I found these letters that this guy wrote to the Royal Geographical Society about Alfred Russell Wallace.

5:36 And they can attach themselves to someone like Wallace or Darwin or anybody else. And they're going to join in. Because he's the guy. so many people who are actual scientists want to debate Deepak. It's not for public consumption. a quote from Vendanta, he's on to something. And that quote can be interpreted a bunch of different ways. Not how neurons fire.

8:59 know okay we live in a determined universe uh how can we have free will if that's true okay the What is your position on like 25 different debates in philosophy? out here, and that was a choice. Yes, the universe is determined, but my behavior, my actions, my Degrees of freedom. the human, it's not clear which way they're going to go. With the rat, it's more predictable. They'll

11:50 you caught your partner in bed with somebody else, you lost your temper, bam! So he went out and killed his mother and then he went to the bell tower and killed 19 people or whatever it'm dead, do an autopsy. So he went out and killed his mother, and then he went to the Balthazar and killed 19 people or whatever it was. Sam or a determinist would say, it's all tumors. It's all determined. You're just using different

13:31 inactive. So you have all these impulses that bubble up and there's no break. There's no I think he got life in prison. And so, you know, the law would deal with that differently. you're making a choice, the choice you're making is based on all the data that you've taken in You may become self-aware, like I have a violent temper and I really need to do something about this.

16:45 How do they do it? You don't have to do that. through a neuroscience explanation. Bottom-up molecules, scaling up, emergent property, But someone like Deepak says, it'll never get us there. It's more like it's just a part of the universe. I've tried to put myself into his worldview. then you're also going there with the intent to try to make some positive change in your life and try to get on a good path.

19:46 Rudy is the scientist who discovered the genes for Alzheimer's. So he does a lot of work with Not massage in this particular one, although they have great massages there too, which is also healthy. So there was a difference. First of all, everybody got better. Blood pressure goes down, argument was that it could be, there's sort of a causal chain there, that meditation leads to less stress, less inflammation, and therefore less of these buildup plaques and tangles around the

22:26 But even saying it's out there is not correct. I do other things that I think are relaxing. And that's what causes aging ultimately is genetics. And how, but how much of, see, it seems to me that that's something that you would want to study We've got to do more of this. Yeah, there's a certain way of talking that people really enjoy hearing because it makes it sound like, oh, there's some sort of a mystical explanation and solution to all of the problems that modern day society presents you with.

25:46 I think that when you meditate, and for me, my big one is the sensory deprivation tank. And in doing that, I feel like there's no motion at all. It's meditation. A lot of them get based on the momentum of the things you've already done versus what you actually want to do. Right. this is from my chapter on Deepak and Eastern religious traditions in my next book, Heavens on Earth.

28:41 I don't know what it costs to rent the shrine. Same thing with this last weekend. Germany. They have different kinds of problems or issues, a lot of them depression, mental, Very hypnotic, yeah. And even your memories of the past, it's just neurons firing in your brain now of what happened what's that, the one on the, right on the cliffs, the Esalon Institute. I've been there several

31:54 I think those people that you're talking about, they do have a whole different set of problems because they have achieved material wealth beyond the imagination of the average person. If you're going to invest, that's not the move. palace on it so this was some royal person sent his car over either in a boat or on a plane And if your life is being an indigenous person,

33:44 when you're in a hunter-gatherer tribe as you do Pull up in your blue Ferrari and it's like, there's problems. Yeah. I'm sure. Here, as we can tell, the effect lasts for a couple of weeks. self-help books, or go to those seminars are people that have already done so, So there's two senses in does it work. or is it like, you know, 60% of the people between ages of 25 and 40 that have these medical

36:33 It's like Netflix just released that documentary based on Tony Robbins. What I always ask is what has he done other than do these seminars? You know, like he's become infomercial things. But I think it's interesting what he's done because it's not like, say if a guy like Steve Jobs or Wozniak who created Apple, if they made a book on how to get motivated and get something done and here's the core aspects of success in this endeavor and I've done this and I want you to know this, I want to spread this knowledge.

38:48 And I'm doing yoga four times a week. in the newspaper and said send me a dollar i'll tell you how to make a million dollars He went to this rehab, and when he came on the podcast and was discussing the rehabilitation process for getting off these pills, You're like, you're right, man. You're right. But then the inspiration dies off and you so comfortably slide back into your old ways.

41:50 or whatever exercise. So I suspect with drugs or alcohol, it's probably a year or two to really He's just bigger than life. Throwing the side, yeah. He's, what's bugging you, man? 3,000 people in this hotel room, cameras and lights. He goes, what? And Tony goes, don't you be laughing now because you're going to spoil the program for suicide. I don't think that would have made the film.

44:22 Yes. Oh, oh, click, dial tone. No, no, of course not. And then they'll drive home, they'll listen to a song and then their wife will send them a text. He might he might have given her awesome advice, but he fucking for sure didn't know that it was awesome advice, right? We don't know. Sobriety and maintaining sobriety and how little of an impact that it actually had it did have an impact on people maintaining sobriety and how little of an impact that it actually had. It did have an impact on people maintaining sobriety.

47:45 they there's they're trying to medicate themselves they're trying to and one of the things is they're trying to medicate themselves from a lack of companionship or lack of good meaningful Everyone's looking at you. There's a lot involved in it They've figured it out of an effect it is. just quit drinking. He realized drank again his whole life to this day

49:58 I'm sorry you have the alcoholic gene or whatever. That it's much harder for them to not have the second, third, fourth, and they go till they pass out. It's both? Native Americans didn't have alcohol in their history. I tweeted something today that made sense why some people can follow a vegan diet and Not so much you have to believe in God. It keeps, well, it also... But not just that

53:24 born again. I'm a sinner. I was born Michael and I'm an alcoholic. It's like the born again. I'm a sinner. That seems way better. coal walk things that he does? Well, you did it as a skeptic to prove. Well, explain the whole. No, no, because if you move fairly quickly, the conductance of the heat is very slow with wood. You touch the cake, and it's 450 degrees.

55:19 Science! But if you go above 15 to 20 feet, the heat's going to start to build up. schirmer firewalk there's a video yeah that's a very short little fire walk yeah it's very short It really doesn't mean anything. well I mean we want to know Yeah, that makes a ton of sense. But if you don't, you know, then your skin is thinner and temperature builds up faster for that.

57:58 You were a tenderfoot in the beginning. Right. They're in shape. And then like, I'm in that group. why is that good? How did it ever get established that isolating a muscle group is a good thing? Yeah, that's certainly true. And it's all. You know, those machines are very glamorous. Right. that was always the protocol. Like if you look at how Arnold lifted, now a lot of these Franco

1:02:10 And through the 50s and early 60s, he was just lifting weights, Mr. Bodybuilder. the first hill bye they're gone he realized wait a minute maybe i'm not fit you know he was mr Yeah. Did my workout of the day today. of unusual people doing unusual things. They're very attractive to people, those things. But as always, you know, it's extremism that, you know, I'm going to do this six hours a day.

1:04:38 And, you know, I mean, it's like, God, he had this workout routine that he had like a $5,000 challenge that anybody that could match him for the 45-minute workout routine in his home gym. So was he fit? see that lady out there Sunday morning getting her paper, cigarette, coffee, donut? The guy, he's a doc who treats men for aging. Yeah, that's true, but really no one's living above 120.

1:06:53 You know, we're going to live 500 years. I have this phrase that I've said many times, but I'm going to say it because it fits right here. This is my next book. You still feel like you. which is very unlikely and then you die what our current understanding is. If we looked at it in terms of the understanding of people that possible that you know how bees make honey i I think people might make the universe. I think

1:10:51 and fucking giardia and everybody's dying from inborn disease. people maybe it makes people and in our through through intelligence yes some I really think that might be what we do. Well, that is an actual theory, you know, that we're living in the matrix, What is this? What does it say there? Do you know what cuck means? Okay. Cuck-servative. Oh, it's-

1:14:30 But it's interesting because certain, you know, four-letter words, curse words, they have certain characteristics of the words themselves that tend to be short and kind of guttural, abrupt, you know, fuck, cut, because the idea is you want to hurt somebody with your words emotionally. It makes perfect sense. I'm surprised that it's conservative and cuckled instead of what I thought it was.

1:16:57 Ever. In case he comes back. Boy, that's the most popular one. Yeah. I don't know. wake up, chronically frozen, wake up. Well, this is what he argues. I mean, most people go, well, what do you mean? We try to have an explanation. Yeah, we feel like it's a place but deep bog tells me this is completely wrong way to say it when it ends does that energy go somewhere and become some thing that we haven't considered

1:20:59 Reincarnation. like why are they so stupid why are they doing well maybe they've only this is their third or That's correct. Awesome book. We could detect the heat. and no dragon at all so if there's not if there's not some way for us to get at it then You know, tumors do go into remission, but most of them don't. So always, this is my theory of the afterlife.

1:24:47 And again, it's something to consider. So they sick bears on the kids? That would be fitting with the Old Testament. died? That one's legit? So this is secondhand, thirdhand, whatever. They got it all together? Somehow or another, a white guy grew up in the from his parents. It was a super controversial movie at the time and groundbreaking in terms of like,

1:28:04 a funny comedian friend of mine, and so much further down the line Right. One of the characters has that line about, okay, we'll let in the niggers and the spics, It would be hateful and horrible and the blogosphere would erupt. He was going to hit her. It was like a natural part of behavior to the point where we didn't even mind it from heroes. Like, no, Paul, what do you mean?

1:30:28 That was a big hit. Christine. Give her a couple years. Even 18 is ridiculous, right? Boom, there we go. Yeah. It's not the worst thing to slap a woman now and then. I haven't changed my opinion. I think that it depends entirely on the circumstances and if it merits it. Oh, boy. 90s maybe. Interesting. That was also, she provoked him in this way where, you know, he's a chauvinist.

1:34:09 But of course he is. Like, what are we doing here? There was a minor controversy, but this is before the internet, so it didn't go viral. to your it's like holy moly and it didn't make a big thing but it was there in the time i remember How do you get out of And does he have the free will to escape that influence? Just kidding. You can get a hotel room somewhere, dude.

1:38:13 It's so clear. You've committed assault. how just like books of manners and table manners and how you interact with other people non-violently And here's how not to be gross. to take a shit right over there. we've been on this Now, obviously, there's still a handful of the psychopaths or whatever. They don't care. But fewer and fewer of us. And just from that interview, Sean Connery's generation versus our generation versus our kids. You know, this is just disappearing from our vocabulary, from our repertoire of behaviors that we will employ with other people. You just don't even think about doing that. That's how moral progress happens,

1:41:34 a little bit more durable, a little, and people relax more and more about the, because we're essentially in the same, you know, why do people why do certain people not run not fight but panic lock up right and what's going And there was this big study on possums in Florida, the ones that are out in the wild and how long you live, irrespective of predation and accidents.

1:43:55 Yeah. Like, does anybody ever figure out how many times you can get hit by a guy who's 350 pounds running 30 miles an hour? I just think it's... No, that story of the concussion story that was first broke by ESPN in a front line in a two-hour documentary. Wow, that is so crazy. What is this? What is this, Jim? 8? He's not the average. He's the outlier, though,

1:46:29 Only 245. He probably wouldn't even make the main team now. When George Foreman was the heavyweight champ, he was gigantic. Because I guess the more mass, like the sumo wrestlers you want mass not just muscle yeah they you're in a situation, like, I guess, if you had never played football before, and then And how it was, this guy's argument is that it was pretty accepted and common and known.

1:48:46 Like, you're cheating, as opposed to, it's just a medical thing. So half are red blood cells delivering oxygen to your muscles. losing a little edge. So I'll just I'll train at high altitude or I'll sleep in the oxygen tent or I'll just take the injection. 90s and mid-90s. There was article for Scientific American about doping in sports. This guy is saying that's never been proven.

1:51:15 i mean some of this should be maintenance like what triggered this was looking at those huge a lot of those guys, it's a battle of who can take the most drugs, who can power lift the most, who can lift I think they're just getting smarter about it. And he didn't really want to avoid it as long as he could. Yeah. not be working with as much effort say as a sprinter who's running 100 meter like a usain

1:54:41 And then mentally, the drag on maintaining maintaining must be huge, must be crazy. So, you know, it's like we've got to do this just to stay with the rest of the field. arbitrarily drawn the line there. And, you know, I think there's much of it in the NFL has got to But they, most likely- I think that some forms of that stuff, have been stripped while now and he has almost completely cleaned up the amount of people that are doing things people

1:58:00 Yes. Well, the best guys, for sure. Yeah, the best guys are still the best guys. This man needs his medicine. and he's cheating to win, that's one thing. There was this guy, Ali Bagutinov, who's a top flyweight fighter. And efficiency of technique is also, like, really critical in MMA and his technique. Two-year suspension if you get caught. And then you might get a text while you're on Lake Mead, come to the dock.

2:01:27 The Russians hacked the USADA database. Oh, really? Yeah. Launched in the air, though, in that split. things that i can't remember what the biochemistry of it is, but the stimulant actually counters the hyperactivity and it slows you down. and he was always running around. Now he's got i think the consensus is as far too much medication of children uh who really the

2:03:59 and there's people that might, a kid that might just be a little bit rowdy. And that's all it still is. Well, someone's in a fucking band. Like we train When you gonna do when going to take the bar? And they don't even want to be there. Trade schools are great, but, you know, we've sort of stigmatized it. And I think it's artificially putting people in places where they feel inadequate because actually somewhere else they'd be making a lot of money at a particular trade that they're really good at and they'd be happy.

2:06:58 And then in overcoming and getting through those tests at school or getting through whatever weird social stuff that you got going on in your classroom, you develop sort of some data. You get some experience about the world. everybody. You know, it's, it's sort of the, how are you going to dis in a disciplined way, And burden them with some insane workload of shit that they have to do

2:08:40 Yes, it teaches them that it's hard out there I was a member of the first four-year graduating class, 1976, Class of 76. Unless you're Oprah or something, you're not going to be living like this again. Probably would be, right? You mentioned trade schools that made me think of it. They just basically are for profit. and the school is still charging $50,000 a year or something.

2:11:34 it. Yeah. It's really crazy how much it costs to get an education. And I understand that it's from 11,600 to 12,000 professors not in the actual teaching This is hilarious. Attendance set a new record, 370. Melissa Click was the professor of communications. Oh, and you see that video. Let's not get angry at some guy who's taking a picture of things and photographing things.

2:15:09 Right. It went viral. Yes. To all the class of 2020 sent that letter out. Now everyone's read it. It went viral. You know, we don't really have a problem with that here at Chapman. I said, this is it. Right. You just you start looking for people becomes like McCarthyism for morality. Right. And when you're in school and you're preparing for the real world,

2:17:43 Exactly. Really? So the Q is questioning or queer. Let's see. I think intersectionality. who came out as pansexual is that what she was no she wasn't a congressman she's state representative Oh my goodness. There's people that are shorter. You don't have to do anything. He's not, right? let's see lgbtq. I forget what that is. Asexual. That don't desire sex.

2:21:37 So then you can sort of see, I can sort of see in this meeting how a pseudo problem becomes a problem that isn't real. Oh, yeah, it's much worse. What happened? And so the question is, how do you deal with that? of different things they could have said you know they could have drove by and go i love your hair some of the things might have some merit to them some of the things might

2:24:35 really good ideas about how maybe it's not a good idea to have a bunch of guys on your campus Just don't say that kind of shit. It's a risky move. than it is to wear redface? We have to sit down, And tell the guy, guys should be, you know, guys, you know, you want to get laid. between those films that we watch these men beat the shit out of women and it

2:27:20 I'll call her Caitlyn. And in a television show, Right, that's right. too far the other way you're not reasonable you're looking to get pissed off over nonsense You know it's a spectrum and choosing gender teams to becomes a real issue because there's pieces of shit on the male side what was the the false rape accusation that made it to the New York Times or

2:30:11 there's one possible scenario here. person talking is telling you the truth. Right. Otherwise you're blaming the victim. and everything else is rape yeah and so she talks about you know the dance of seduction and you know We weren't there. do this. They'll go to a dominatrix and this woman will insult them and hit them and she beats them piss on her like i know this guy likes girls to piss on him really he's crazy jim norton he's a

2:33:47 They just do. and she tells you when you're going to have sex. it's a terrible crime. And then six months later, he published a story in Rolling Stones saying, I never consented. She beat me. Yeah reverse those roles. It looks like rape us. Right. People are fucking strange. They're fucking strange. Well, this, this new law in Holy shit. I mean, this is not, again, this is not being a domestic violence apologist.

2:36:41 There's a really good little film short online i can't Now, will your client agree to this? like a funky mustache and he's with a girl and they're making out and he's like can i touch your And it's kind of hot. she said yes the shirt came off we're making progress some things are happening she's she's and asking her, can I do this? No, you don't. It's real simple.

2:39:18 Yeah. Or are you just annoying the fuck out of people? And then, you know, that stat we put up with the number of diversity officers. Busy work. Yeah, busy work. Yeah, creating work. We've got to write it up. We've got to make it a law. Busy work. who had a job It was like some union deal that they had made, probably with quote-unquote organized crime.

2:41:27 We're not going to go with blackface. I can't. And that was a big controversy. Isn't that crazy, though, that this is one specific look with makeup we do not allow? It was a white guy, right? No, man, it's interesting, and I get it. Oh, there we go, right. If you had to guess, what do you say? He's not close to anything. But that's really white. But the actors,

2:44:36 George Takei. Yep. Yeah. Like that way? And we did a lot of- Oh, wow, man. This guy who's playing, the lizard guy, is so bad. This is not in slow motion. This is how the show Where's your ground and pound bitch? Okay look at this? Styrofoam rock. Meanwhile, go back to hitting him in the ear, motherfucker. Oh, that's right. And then the technique, look, you hit him in the ear, you did some serious damage, and

2:48:04 I don't think it will. The same technique. This is really funny. Like, if you had that on Comedy Central today, if you had a ridiculous space show, if you Right. He's crazy. It's really good. that book about Saved by the Bell I was crushed it was that inside MMA? No. Screech Saved by the and became, he did porn. There's the... Yeah. It's Mario Lopez.

2:51:10 Mike Darnell was their big reality show guy. Oh, Jesus. Yeah. Remember? All right. She must have been a good athlete, though. He hit her in the legs, right? I thought she was able to compete. But she came back. Is that what it was? Her ex-husband. Well, how could you know what words were said, right? or something like that. They add a few things to those based on reals.

2:55:20 who was like a, he's really kind of a historian on the Wild West, But he didn't kill anybody. You shouldn't be allowed to do that. Based on on means we're gonna make some shit up right like you could kevin Listen, I know your bladder is ready to give out. Oh, no. I got a dinner to go to. And anytime you want to do it. Oh, wow.