Joe Rogan Experience #872 — Graham Hancock & Randall Carlson Transcript

Transcript

0:00 Joe Rogan, experience. It's just the whole thing. that it would be good to make a film about this and crowdfund it. Just go to my website, grahamhancock.com, and there's a revolving banner, which is the have been investigating the extraordinary story of a massive series of comet impacts on the North American ice cap 12,800 years ago. name of, which they're pretty certain was wiped out by a comet impact about four and a half thousand

3:09 It's called the Comet Research Group. It's a massive issue. It's a massive issue. As it was, it's already forgotten. So we're fortunate enough to have so many of those videos because of that. all over forget about it. Quite the contrary this. This is just something that would be prudent and rational for the human species to do. he started chirping something about civilizations

6:42 No one knows that. the new evidence the Younger Dryas impacts, which were a series of comet impacts on the North American ice cap. these events well Michael Shermer is a brilliant guy I don't mean to shit on him but but what what in great depth. When I read as they hear any sort of a theory outside of what they've been told, they immediately call quackery. Absolutely.

9:28 I mean, we've seen impacts. kinds of catastrophes have also influenced the rise and fall of civilization, and a lot It's not as empty as we thought. and which haven't been seen yet? what are the things that could be done to protect Earth? You can paint. It's low-tech, And the technology is there. And that's the solution I kind of prefer, because, again, these things are tremendous sources of all kinds of things

12:58 And this is theicians of the Gods, because of this discovery that there's a thing called the Taurid meteor stream, which is 30 million kilometers wide and which envelops the solar system. and as they break up more and more, they de degrade and small bits and large bits break off and in the Bronze Age. The most recent, almost definite impact out of the torrid meteor stream was Tunguska in Siberia back in 1908. That hit on the 30th of June 1908 and that's at the peak of the torrid June shower when we passed through the torrids in June and in November.

15:21 hidden hand in human civilization. It has wiped out episodes of our history in the past, Mostly being ignored. And they preferred to explain any cataclysmic evidence as a result of gradual processes. or gradualism. I'm reading a book right now by Dan Flores, a really interesting book called Coyote America. To me, it's a lunatic. So I don't think hunter-gatherers wiped out the mammoths in North America.

18:35 That's a good way of putting it. there was kind of giving a gradualist explanation that, well, over long periods of time, immediately went on with her narrative like but yet i had an article we're talking about you know at the end of the last ice age, 120 roughly species of megafauna that disappeared, Pretty much totally coincident with that period called the Younger Dryas.

21:18 was the Clovis culture that existed for 300 to 500 years, I think. because you had quarries that had been mined for centuries They were hunter-gatherers, and they focused mostly on small game. all of the mainstream academics They entered the Americas then. It's a very peculiar thing that's going on. But yet, it's not something that we don't have any evidence about.

24:31 They just say, oh, Hancock's brought out another book. Absolutely. And like Graham mentioned earlier, it went from a religious motive, I think, extinction. Having looked now at mass extinctions and been really an obsession of mine for about 30 anything that we've experienced in the last since the industrial revolution began and we still don't huge amount of kinetic energy, a huge amount of heat and shock, and that creates very definite

28:05 I don't understand why this is controversial. I really don't. espousing for so long. This is a game changer. hard evidence yeah you're talking about this nuclear glass you're talking about is a real thing. That's why they've had no funding. And I don't mean to keep harping on Michael Shermer, because I like Michael, but he highlights It's astonishing the number of people who...

31:06 That's not a fact. I mean, how big were these stones? pay for somebody to become an architect and for those times somebody to become And that's now taken as the beginnings of civilization. of the lineage that descended from Gobekli Tepe times. And what's fascinating about Gobekli Tepe tales, which all talk about cataclysms. Well, part of our modern psychology is to imagine that we are

34:40 evidence that there had been this tremendous flooding in Washington state. And all of his and over again. And when you look at just one piece of it, you might be able to say, okay, I took a group of people out there and took them to Palouse Falls to show them right on the spot where James Gillooly was standing when he finally had his epiphany. And we can get into a little bit of that,

37:12 undeniable and he walked back to the group and the words out of his mouth verbatim were how could i What they wanted to do was find something within our modern experience, They're very common up in Iceland because you've got several volcanoes under the Icelandic ice sheets. And up there, they use the term Jokulaps to describe these outburst floods.

39:02 Yeah. there had been there had been flooding and actually eventually they gave Harlan and that was always his view, they said, oh, there must have been 70 or 80 floods that caused all of what you've been teaching and practicing your whole life. Where? He's such a character. characteristic, but also we get invested in particular positions. And when people criticize those positions, we take it as an existential

42:19 a lost civilization. before the discovery of gobekli tepe that site could never have been explained the dating is I'm not saying they haven't looked at all, but they're primarily in marine archaeology Search on that. Of course. Incredible megalithic temples. It's very difficult because I'm looking at something very two dimensional on it, the fact that there are holes

45:48 Astronomical sightings now this site's a mess. It's been knocked over by the sea But this is an important discovery. rose dramatically at the end of the ice age, it makes sense that some things would be buried under the water. where a lot of discoveries are going to be made. But what it is is we have to keep an open mind and say, well, there are some very strong similarities here, so let's investigate this thing further.

48:10 this... With a Mount Toba. we've never watched a super volcano take over the world, but we've seen asteroids hit other planets. We've actually Another thing to… That is not a fact. That is an opinion. But John Anthony West was the first to see that actually when we look at the Sphinx, What caused it was exposure to a very long period of heavy, heavy, heavy rainfall.

50:56 Like what is new that we can look at? They've just kind of stopped, you know. area which is subject to tremendous unrest and difficulty and it's difficult for archaeologists Is that 2 million pounds? Double it and add three zeros on it. And it's astonishing to me that this one, which It's not an iPhone. I think a much leaner and more elegant explanation for these huge archaeological anomalies is

53:54 Unless you massage the evidence a lot, they're not good evidence. They say, oh, the Romans built it all. discovery. I mean, like this article I have right here, which came out in 2014, so it's not that old, That's in the Journal of Geology. You can measure it. this evidence, these nanodiamonds, these melt glass, the carbons, ferrules, could that have

56:38 that he was the one who noted that below this black matte layer which is only two west and some of their colleagues and it was just basically a small group at that point took a look grains, the microspherals, the carbonaceous spherals, fullerenes. You find these impact It may have then ceased for a while. to this would be a tsunami and we've seen some pretty devastating tsunamis within the last decade

59:52 where you literally had a tsunami sweeping over the land that was over 1,000 feet deep. Because in the conventional models now of this flooding, that goes back to Harlan Bretts, Then as the research evolved, you had independent evidence You see the shorelines etched, you know, 1,000 feet above the valley floor. Well, you're talking about somewhere between 520 and 550 cubic miles of water.

1:02:52 valleys of western Montana. And this is what I spent a couple of weeks in Interestingly, the Canadians are saying flows of water. with a plausible explanation vastly bigger than all of the Great Lakes combined. melting enormous volumes of ice. It's beautiful. We know that. Yeah. I think people are ready for panic. There's a video of it online. And just like your skeptic, he didn't know anything about Gobekli Tepe.

1:07:58 that Plato gives us for the destruction of the lost civilization of Atlantis. Plato, that's the existed on earth that was the progenitor civilization of Egypt, but that was destroyed in a terrible How could they know? In the Timaeus, you know, Plato discusses Atlantis in two dialogues. So he went home distraught. have unlimited powers, except they also have certain restrictions. For example, if a god

1:10:42 His father says, look, you've got to hang on to those reins tight earth and then it describes this whole litany of catastrophes just setting the earth on fire but what it really represents is a declination a zodiacal constellation. be thousands of objects within the torrid meteor stream on the same scale as the tunguska object So like Graham was saying, they make an elliptical orbit

1:14:17 evidence that it was most likely a remnant of that torrid stream the other time that the earth and there's some very interesting... Yeah, the shoulder of the bull. And what he came up with was that in his research, he discovered that many of these In other words, it reaches the keystone of the royal arch, so to speak, up in the sky. It's fascinating that it's all coming out of the constellation Taurus too, and it's

1:17:15 It's something that is going to ultimately require us to re-explain almost everything. fault. This is so recent, this science is so new that they've not had time to adapt to it. But if Maybe that's why we're so fucked up, you know, because we just actually don't know. and crazy people that are claiming new discoveries. with comets because this huge massive object circulating in the outer solar system

1:19:52 And this is all scientifically established astro-scientists They're kind of messengers from the distant reaches of the cosmos who come in in an unpredictable Which would indicate that something was probably there at one point in time. We would have sold our houses December 21st, 2012, and we'd all be going, what the fuck? I love the idea of the aliens come down and manipulating the monkeys and making us to mine gold.

1:21:38 We had many conversations. fantastical is more attractive than the practical and so something else again I going to say what's interesting need some pot because i know could be good what was um what's rather than that it's actually inherent in the data. Gold is a really spectacular piece of, I mean, there's nothing like it, right? which deserves investigation and which the human species could benefit from.

1:25:25 map of the solar system clear idea of the solar with the size in like a I mean, he had some really interesting points, Zechariah did. I mean if we found some sort of evidence of aliens it would be so utterly spectacular that you do encounter entities in the DMT in the DMT state and they do remember when I did it I was so confused I mean to me it was like the first my first DMT

1:28:08 Yeah. And of course, again, the skeptics say, oh, it's all just made up in your brain. And I think the answer is definitely yes and many of Rick's volunteers If you're interested in anybody, the book is amazing. Correct. But that's not the point. this is one that's just like that. Acacia. with the monoamine oxidase inhibitor. Because we're talking about the burning bush producing God, and it

1:31:40 role. That's right, you're one of them of Freemasons. I've spoken in Masonic Lodges, Some young hedonist you know and they call themselves Satanists and so Duncan performed at this wedding think so it's not happening bro i met a couple of masons they're very cool well most masons don't It's all there. it's based on. Masons, in my opinion, they're largely a drinking club for men.

1:34:46 who are pursuing are doing their thing. That's interesting. Why do you think that? could you have ever done fingerprints of the gods I could not you cute I mean and And like, what the fuck is in there? to account for the amount of hostility and anger and rage that I generated in What I really appreciate about your courage is that you've also had the courage to meet when you've made mistakes

1:37:58 mainstream ideas. I just think that ideas are- Mm-hmm, like you know, that's just that no one's doing that. Like this is, but it's not mainstream. Right. Maybe somebody even somebody who would disagree with me on something could still help me answer some of the questions, right? They're working for the oil companies or, you know, exploration, mineral exploration,

1:40:40 here. I majored in geology in college. 10 fully PhD geologists. Yeah, you always freak me out. So what's fascinating to me about all this is that I think what you've done has been very measured. Your podcasts have been... The ones that we've done, they've been seen by millions And he wrote archaeology. Meanwhile, your entire book is based on photographic evidence

1:43:26 Well, Robert Schock and guys like him are so important. I got into a very interesting email correspondence with a guy called Daniel Lohmann at Baalbeck from the German Archaeological Institute, Now, what about those pyramids in Bosnia? the Pyramid of the Moon, Impression is given that there are tunnels, passage They are not pyramids. Impression is given that

1:46:00 There's thousands of pyramids in China. Why not? pyramid it has also not been excavated the terracotta army around it has been Absolutely. And you know, even major archaeological sites like Tiwanaku in Bolivia, for example, They brought some of them. turned it into a pyramid you'll mount but it wasn't it's not just it's not them. Yeah. Also, here's one that's exposed

1:49:59 You're dealing with literally thousands of years of civilization all rising and falling and taking place and them. If they had come 40 years earlier, they would have encountered the Chinese treasure ships, burned all the boats, shut everything down, that was a factor in it. That constant desire to maintain the current situation. I want to get that, show them that picture of you up on the air.

1:52:23 What are we looking at here? this whole landscape between the hills are these large masses of gravel, Let's pause right there. You know what a delta is? New Orleans is built on a delta. Stop again. Now, those ripples are the tallest ones are about the height of a five-story building. 50 feet. this is crazy this is totally crazy this is one of the craziest things you'll ever see this is

1:56:10 We can see how water flows receding across a sandy medium will produce ripples. the effect like you do when you've got when a low sun angle really helps you to see what what what's But those same people would still not buy into the notion that there was this one humongous flood. I have a friend of mine who, his friend lives in Montana, and they found a dinosaur on his ranch.

1:57:51 Yeah. the last decade and a half in Indonesia and Japan. freshwater meltwater coming off the ice sheet and it's sweeping down over this this massive element of change when the volume is a thousand feet high and just rolling over with They go way out, miles out to get to these crazy waves, and we ride them in. an ocean of fresh water sweeping across the entire Pacific Northwest, pretty much washing

2:02:12 Okay, right there. And then we would be standing looking down current. And that's just one region that's being affected by this sudden catastrophic melting of the well it actually would because if it if that had happened 12,000 years ago, we wouldn't be having our meeting today. This all makes sense. the rot has gotten we've got the past all worked out. We understand it. Here it is. This is what we teach in schools. This is also a comfort game with archaeology. Oh, yeah, we've got the past all worked out.

2:05:14 so many missing pieces of the puzzle Dealing with gloom and doom and the end of the world Yeah, it was the Caitlin, the Indian artist who spent 30 years or so pre-Civil War, I think maybe a decade after the Civil War, painting Indians of different tribes. They all have a memory or a story of a gigantic world-destroying flood. Americas from the time of the Spanish conquest, the deliberate destruction of knowledge, the

2:07:49 It's a weird impulse that human beings have is when they move into an area and take It's really very bizarre. because I think that's the one way, You know, that's essentially what these people were faced with. I don't think that would be unrealistic. America, you know, Germany, the industrialized technological that there was a fairly advanced civilization

2:10:42 a repeat of the Younger Dryas cataclysm today, I don't think that people from Los Angeles or London would be amongst the leading survivors. They ceased to wear their prosperity with moderation. how to survive i'd most likely at least you've worked at it yeah but i'm not that good at it that, like the Bushmen of the Kalahari. What is the percentage?

2:13:13 they've almost become an agricultural animal it's almost like they're almost a You'd have to have your own vegetables. You're sleeping next to glass. when the universe reminds you that you are not that at all. Another big issue. But then you had another segment of the population You remember when Kanye West got on TV? Sure. What if it's a 10-day lead time?

2:17:46 The real scary thing is, there's two scary things. along the line we get better and better at understanding our place here, which is what I think has happened. People brought up to believe that their only purpose in existence is production and consumption. Most unfortunate development. to like see some things when I'm just writing things. Sometimes I don't. Last night I chose to do it that way. And I just got so enamored in this weird movie from 2001. The movie felt like a time

2:21:02 You get to go and for a brief moment regardless of what people think about the president-elect and I think we're on a great path. It's a hazardous past path I think they are questioning old structures. left-wing uh leaning as is his show but they had this fuck 2016 That's, I think- And what would be the equivalent today or in our near future in terms of an outside shock that would suddenly wake people up would be another event, another Tunguska event.

2:25:26 from space, what effect would that have is because when it's not, to me, is it pessimistic to say that might be what it's going to take, place here and and and what it and what it all means sure I like to smoke a That's a brilliant thing to do, and that's going to have an impact around the world has been the dark force behind But I think that goes to what we're talking about before where it's a system and systems protect themselves Oh, yeah, and I think they develop almost a consciousness of their own. It's scary in a way. Yeah, yeah bureaucracies armed bureaucracies

2:29:27 like it's not it sets us up in this bizarre team mentality where this left protects its ideas of And from the left too, as well as the right. And that's when Kent State emerges. but we're very close because you're allowed to have different opinions. It's too attractive. Yeah, should we look at one more? Yeah, we could look at as many as you want man. Oh roll the party It really is. Just like religion is just a cult with a lot more people. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah.

2:31:51 Back to the flood. Possibly. Okay, what you're looking at there is a gigantic extinct set of cataracts like you would find at Niagara Falls. It's rushing over, and it finds the lowest spot within this ridge, and that's where it starts focusing its energy. you literally have vorticular eddies, And right there, they're probably 600 feet deep because the water pouring over the ridge is at

2:34:40 Okay, where we saw that huge erratic. Yes, very close to that. a valley side. Rests there to their only location, which was in the Better Business Bureau in Moses Lake, Washington. to explain that you've got those, see those lakes, those meandering lakes up there? See that? So now you're going to get to see, as the drone is about to take off, in and fugue in d minor oh okay and the landscape opens up so you're on that rock blade we're on the

2:38:06 yeah that's that's it gives us a whole other insight i mean it used to be a thousand dollars And so now by going out here with a drone, I've been over this landscape several times in a on the rock. Do you see him? Cut. Sliced out of the landscape. Plucking, differentially plucking material off the surface. There you get a sense of the rock blade. This is a gravel bar down here. Over there. And look at, see the giant r bar. This is a gravel bar down here.

2:40:36 Nobody's ever paid attention, but there they are. See, it gets complicated. No, not that dude. Right. And at that point, you can start having this framework This is recovering the lost past of humanity. whether you know give a dollar or a100 or whatever, any little counts. and it has the potential to change the whole story of our past and our future.

2:44:02 into debate, and spending more time on this because it's such an interesting story. It's amazing stuff. And this is, I mean, this is what I've, light pollution... We never see the stars. I think it's really a perspective blocker in a big way. it is mystery. We are immersed in mystery from the moment we're born to the moment we when you know there's a stretch where the moon is not going to be out,

2:47:06 that could have been witnessed by ancient peoples that we are completely oblivious to you're not going to see it. which it apparently does from time to time suddenly the sky is now uh becomes a major When we are passing through a filament of the torrid meteor stream that's thick with heavy debris. we can solve this problem. Again, the serious commercial talk of mining asteroids, that is the way into this.

2:49:36 Folder of awesomeness. and then we'll look at some photographs. So each one of those varies roughly between 10 and 20 miles wide, It's over to the west. It's all in order because there's a lot in here. a bigger view of of the landscape and you can see the two melt water that's a scab And it's impounding water in Franklin Delano Roosevelt Lake to about 400 feet deep.

2:53:19 Moraine, and you can see it's circular where the glacier came. that that's the residue of this. You see Coeur d'Alene right there. If people go to the And so they probably will. absolutely unequivocally right undeniably you see this Joe and you The ripples? something that would be really interesting to debate i I mean, I would love to see someone who's a geologist that, you know, I'm sure there's someone out there that is listening to this that may have a dispute with it.

2:56:10 research group with the Missoula flood effects that we're looking at or so How would I know about this? We can set that up. Well, in my mind, there's really no arguing with this evidence. And after having crisscrossed thousands of miles of this landscape repeatedly and basically absorbed every piece of scientific literature ever written on it Anybody who's actually studied the history of it.

2:58:32 I mean, anything that was there before the ice came down would have been ground to powder. And not just once but That is it, yes. Yes, it's all, it obviously all leads, Those people would make it. I'm looking at this after what you've told me. all the high hills were covered. is one of those traditions that have come down, We must immediately realize the flood is not the property of the monotheistic religions.

3:02:12 So all that's, I mean, that is unbelievably fascinating. carved and plucked and quarried and gouged and gashed that landscape and this is one of the Yeah. What, Niagara? It's about 200,000, between 150 and 200,000 cubic feet per second going over those falls, excuse me niagara falls right there right above it right there yes it would but on a smaller scale on

3:05:24 That's why if you go into any geology text, to what you're seeing on the ground there. If it's taken Niagara 10,000 years, say, to carve that, how long would it take an equivalent which doesn't have anywhere near the type of turbulence or erosive potential is when you get If we move quickly through here, we'll get to it. And then you see the beginning of the blade rock out there,

3:07:57 That was extruded basically with the eruption of the Yellowstone Caldera. Those would be like four-story buildings down there. And they're all in a... fit together too perfectly to and there was no other explanation other than gigantic hydraulic Well, you have to ask, what could be the change in the human orientation to life on this planet? that involves the recognition that this planet we live on

3:11:02 coming together. All this information is being exposed It's so easy to follow. It's all, I mean, it seems but what you actually see when you look at the modern erosion is that these features are being slowly eroded and eaten away by the modern erosion. was all created by one flood, because of the massive rainout feature. But what's interesting to us here is what happened around 12,000 years ago, the entire

3:13:57 And it's completely removed. same interval when the floods were happening up north, the same interval that now the comet is not 2,500 B.C. Exactly. You guys are freaking me out this is amazing this is the most convincing argument cubic feet and now this flood actually was coming up get this out of utah it was coming up it was And it cut channels like this that ultimately led to the Columbia River.

3:17:27 stuff that got left behind this is the sediment load being carried in the flood wow so you got Yes. one big catastrophic flood. But again you would need something like the comet impact to provide you with a source for that rainfall right because otherwise there's no Possibly one in the Indian Ocean. but there's a lot of interest in the 11,600 years ago as well.

3:20:07 and creates the greenhouse effect This might be my all-time favorite. Whew. Okay. This is important work. God damn, this is an awesome podcast. we can see an aerial photo i took years ago of west bar it's three miles long there it is All this is dated to the same time. going to melt all of it it's going to leave a huge amount of residual ice in the aftermath

3:23:19 that takes about two or three thousand years to melt away. So sea levels continue to rise. Sea levels continue to rise and the melting of this ice produces some pretty big floods. I would love to see people really go over this with a fine-tooth comb because it's so compelling. Like, if they get to the bottom of one of those ripples? So if you've got a bone in there or a piece of wood,

3:25:06 Right, right. It's boulders. Go to 1041, and we'll see an interesting artist rendition by Edward Riau, Because it's carrying a gigantic boulder. Okay, so we got the Graham Erratic coming up in about three images. Okay, normal-sized people and, you know, whatever, six feet and and bounce them on top of each powerful erosive flow. wouldn't stand right there I think that thing's gonna roll on top of you that would be a rap son

3:27:57 hanging off the side of that hill the way the bergs get stranded in the land. okay so the mound itself below it is what you're saying is the berg mound that's the berg mound Well, that's me on top of that 18,000-ton boulder. And see, and here's the thing. I mean mean what we're doing here is we're looking where these flood events are preserved the most spectacularly

3:30:24 this massive meltwater channel of which there are hundreds across the plains. I'm down inside the pothole, one of the potholes, looking up at Graham. Go to the YouTube, please, if you're listening to this. it was probably of several weeks duration at its peak. But I think the obvious explanation for it is that when you see the top layers of the flood sediments,

3:33:09 And this rainfall of mud came down in effect- Which many ancient traditions speak of. And again, this muddy rainfall perfectly fits the whole narrative. It's nature gone chaotic and crazy on ultimate steroids. No, it happened a blink of an eye ago. And it's time to get to grips with this. group and it's on in the link is on grahamhancock.com. There it is. So if you go to

3:35:37 And links and connections, a lot of stuff related to this podcast is up on my site. I think it is available for a download. My laptop doesn't even, I don't know. And it's hours of stuff, but I get into a lot of other stuff. Yeah, that's the older version. There it is. There it is. Yeah, there's the Blu-ray, yeah. Matters to entertain and scare the shit out of me at the same time. So thank you for that

3:37:26 I'm over, you know, Yeah, from time to time, find absolutely captivating and you guys I think what you're doing is so important. I would like to get out in the field, too. I want to go there. Thank you so much, everybody.