Joe Rogan Experience #891 — Zach Leary Transcript

Transcript

0:00 All right, man, we're live. Likewise. It has to be the opening question. It's just how I grew up. I didn't know that it was perhaps really strange. And then, uh, you know, he, he died in 96, uh, you know, it was 22. And then like, he was a futurist really, you know, when, you know, during my formative years, I mean, I mean, well, and considering, I mean, you can relate with this, I think, too.

2:41 You have an identity. He was a cool guy, man. You know, we were doing VR, like, yeah, you know, we were at the NASA Ames Research Center. Pixelated, 8-bit, kind of clunky block-like, guys both enter the same room so you're in the room together yeah well dunk and i actually were How many people can it support? futurist as well and completely fascinated by the possibilities and where

5:37 I mean, that's the subtext of not food of the gods, but of one of the hallucinations. Steve Jobs. That's right. I'm kind of leaning there right now myself. I think it could work. And you see the image as if it's like just the video just floating in the sky. lines and that you would learn quicker that way. If it was an important conversation, you'd want to get away from those people screaming

8:42 And so your brain feels supercharged. Psychedelics, the tank, meditation, whatever method you want to pick, gets rid of that. Did a lot of what? A lot a long time with John. Oh, wow. Yeah. Did a lot of what? Fascinating, fascinating guy. I don't. But anyway, point being, he was at John Lilly's. What am I going to say? Whoa. Because I've never done ketamine.

11:49 I don't feel like I'm going to do it again. Yes. Yeah. You picked a bad spot. kind of visions and kind of downloads that are in the color black if that makes any sense at all And I went inside the tank. talking about is what people describe the ketamine experience when you're just really kind of stuck who are you now yeah and it's kind of my mantra for life now but that was over 20

15:50 the public rave setting at all it doesn't make sense to me but but um john loved it lily right I don't know. Yeah. Wanted to have breast implants. Right, but I don't think It's one of the weirder things about like being a tripper and deciding to do that it's like while you're you're violating a lot of like bizarre and be able to, you know, make use of that in the real world.

18:19 that people use as a point of reference, You know, you're well into your adult life, and it changed your consciousness, than actual repercussions. You know, I think Terrence McKenna had a great saying. He said, Yeah. I know. yeah it's like you got to treat and now as we we're stepping into this dark age, I mean, I'm calling it a dark age. Dangerous.

21:25 that the Nixon administration paid for and then ignored. That's right. It doesn't matter what the product is. Like it's not hard at all. Okay. There's a big difference between extracting CBD or getting the marketing out there about all of its benefits. It would be like trying to patent oranges. It's not incredibly difficult. that you guys can profit from and you're the only ones that can make it,

24:50 And then there are other benefits. Well, it is. Yeah. got it's a war on consciousness yeah it's and it's really a war for profit for controlling the ability to still flourish in some way And they tried to land in Mexico. September 16th. Okay. Barry Seals, who used to fly drugs into Mena, Arkansas from South America. Good night, everybody. What a story.

28:57 And, you know, Michael Rupert, who was a good friend of mine, too, who killed himself a few years ago, who had also been on the podcast a couple times michael um was the guy that exposed that he was a los angeles uh detective oh wow and he was But listen to this because go full screen and crank up the volume. Now can you please? Wait a minute. Is there another...

31:34 My question for you is very specific, sir. You know, he went through a lot with this and with many other things drug policy. And I guess Trump said on the call that he was, congratulations on this drug policy. And addicts and users. you tend to value those people less. He's fucking assassinating people. I think you just value the people more. Was that about five years ago?

34:26 but who, you know, he turned marijuana hysteria And then crack brought into the ghetto and stuff. It's true. Poor people. you could say that, they have to keep people employed, you know, and the way to keep people employed is to justify their job But when we still like what Obama, during the Obama administration, he did the, he took Yeah. But it's,

36:11 clearly now, But now straight, you know, out on the table, all the chips on black and, you know, everybody's, Not all Republicans are racist, Yeah, I know. disgusting racist shit. sort of whatever. So he's a staunch marijuana hater. Yeah, just a little just I'm with you and You like Pink Floyd? Oh, yeah. I think he was from Missouri. Do you remember when he put coverings over the naked statues?

39:50 and the other assholes that are in that administration. Dick Cheney's fucking putting on his Darth Vader mask again. We should use this moment to say rest in peace, understand the problem is the damage those goddamn thing that they do to your cardiovascular system Or pun intended, exactly. Yeah, that's a weird thing where someone's not famous anymore.

42:04 He was just trying to feed himself like all the rest of us. Cool. the disillusion of American values, He's like, he was like shitting on me Because I'm just coming in as a guy buying some cough drops. that I was doing the UFC or anything. I was like, am I being punked? That's the Trump thing. I mean, if you're super lucky, you got 20 summers left. Yeah, I don't think so either.

45:01 They're both older than him. Like are there ways to quote unquote win? It doesn't have to be tied to money well the problem is it becomes attractive I mean. I mean, that level. It's a series of tubes. It does never end. It never ends. No. So he was just sort of coming clean about the imbalance of it all. company it was a product company and then products are based on having to have the latest version of

48:14 But if you look at him in his older years, he became very charitable, involved in a bunch of humanitarian efforts and does a lot of amazing work and is using his substantial going to set, set back and think about what I'm doing and what's really important to me in this Walks away. maybe she wanted to a wandering mendicant to do it either you've accumulated a lot,

50:15 Isn't that the big thing? I've sat with them. You know, but when people talk about like Hinduism which is, you know, intoxicant free. And that's sort of, that's kind of an orthodox version of it which is you know intoxicant free and that's And you make it into a fine powder and just throw it down. I know what you're talking about. All these different.

53:03 And then people did it and did meet God. They're just flat and boring and bullshit. they thought it was coming out of the cow's body. The cow would shit it out and they didn't I'm someone of a very spiritual person and have a practice and all that kind of stuff. matter it doesn't matter it doesn't matter if it benefits you to believe in it it benefits you

55:59 If you have the courage and the substances, you can see it. This fucking freak over here. I took 10 hits of this before, maybe 12, I forget, before a Sam Harris podcast. The long one. About what? it just invites the consciousness into your head That's a competition, yeah. i just don't think that's true i just don't want that consciousness in my life and i don't think

59:44 behind her and just, just a random person kicked her Have you, you know, Steven Pinker, Amazing time. And there's so many of us now and it's getting more of us. But ultimately, you've got to love them. That's cool. It's a beautiful And then some guy who was a concealed carry permit holder pulled out his gun, shot the guy, and killed him. Here he is, man who shot Crossroads Mall Terrace's USPSA competitor three-gun shooter.

1:03:01 So he was right. And those are illegally acquired guns. I mean, it's the amount of power that you have in doing so. away. Like, what do you, how do you deal with everything? Yeah, man. I mean, and it's not something that you pissed at me but we stop the sale of all and unless you have a very specific kind of uk style And I was like, fuck it. Do you eat factory-farmed food?

1:06:04 It's not like you're dying, right? That was my shit. It's definitely factory farm. That's true. media. Well, We are. Sorry, I didn't understand. other cities? Yeah, yeah. I don't know, but I'm in touch with him and going to do a podcast with him. on the shelf in a box right you know you had you knew where it was sourced and you it was kind of Like no one.

1:11:06 and that the only way is it is actually impossible to be a vegetarian not not meaning that it's impossible Most people think of the air as being oxygen, right? down that is the food for these plants okay so what would a, why would the vegans oppose this in the sense that like. It's like as our understanding expands, we have to sort of reclassify what we think those things are.

1:13:26 Yeah. because upwind there were animals that were chewing plants. maybe some kind of ayahuasca ceremony in the middle of a garden or an agricultural thing where we're listening and trying to make peace. Like in just corn all in a neat row that you could see from space. Some people don't give a fuck. I've read every book. Why don't you shoot that pig in the head and cut off a leg and throw it on the smoker?

1:16:24 I mean, I don't know. and everything that goes on to fill up our car. And convenient in the moment to just buy that quarter pound or cheese, not think about it If it wasn't connected to such horrific crimes against nature, it's amazing. Like Walmart's a great example. What's interesting is that this is all really recent, right? It's about these guys.

1:19:19 just the accumulation of stuff. You know, it's just this endless kind of relationship we have with it. Yeah, it wasn't like a hoarder, like some poor person that was going to yard sales and He had crazy stuff. the courtyards and all around his pool was stacked up with shit. and be present and be comfortable and content contentness. material possessions and this whole greed is

1:22:13 And you don't look at it. I mean, sure, that's great if you're born into privilege versus the slums of Mumbai. What? And then you're going to leave that cement building and go to another one that's even more expensive. know if if that's true. I really do think that. What do you mean? Well, I have children and I kind of, I kind of get it But once you actually have a baby, and then like five years later, the baby's talking

1:25:58 and fucking credit card debt and then you have a baby and then that baby grows up well i'm smarter It's like, what does a seven-year-old do? It probably says Trump. It's in a Trump insignia on the damn toilet paper. responds to people and argues with people i mean you tweet on him no no i don't tweeted i hardly You can go look for it. When you find it, you could react to it and that begets more of it.

1:28:27 Unless it's funny, what do you get out of that? They seek these debates out and they ask you what they think are hard-hitting questions. No, but people seek it out. They seek these debates out I'm just, Just kind of wacky shit tweets. Oh, he reads his tweets. I think he's reading his tweets. He tweets him at 1.30 in the morning, And I don't get in Twitter wars

1:29:53 Like what kind of stuff do you get involved? It's just you push a button and like, you know calling people morons and so right just far too quickly It also – when you get into conflicts with people, negative conflicts create these centers of attention. You fucking idiot. I think anytime you get in conflict, a contact conflict with someone, it creates like this negative center, this vortex, this weird area in your mind, in your consciousness where that conflict exists.

1:32:17 how could a cognitively kind of adept human being justify voting for Donald Trump? Like, it just didn't make sense to me. I'm not pro-Hillary. this is going to be negative progress How dare you? But you know that he was a Democrat Because he was the African-American guy who grew up in the projects, man. The guy's a doctor. So he must know about housing and urban development.

1:35:21 of it's very negative. But even the negative ultimately, it, it, it Yes, it was. There's absolutely no doubt about it. acquiring material possessions and status and all the nonsense that goes with it. I know some people that have done mushrooms and they did a little bit and they felt good and So the DMT experience to me was, I would say, like, I'm really like two different people i'm the pre-dmt person

1:38:46 out of the 300 and whatever million He was probably responsible for 40 or 50% of it, right? what it became, that you and I wouldn't be sitting here right now being able to talk Not enough happened. How are we going to integrate? Like there is no variation. That's what I'm more concerned with. Okay, yeah. Like the undeniable ego shattering experience of like a severe mushroom trip or a DMT trip or, you know, any, anything

1:43:05 The point I was trying to make earlier is like this hand that you're dealt is bunk because you're like so many people are trapped in that thing of like doing something they hate. They can break free. Is it fear? Oh, I'm going to go broke. Oh, I didn't know that. It's a great, you know, it's nice to be comfortable. I'm cool. You know that expression, the comfort zone is beautiful, but nothing grows there? No, I didn't know that.

1:44:37 You know, we want to survive. where the work is. That's where the, that's where the awakening is. I mean, it wasn't like, Hey, to get up and realize that we fucked it up, you know, and we'll see how bad we fucked it up. And Like this is an insane way for an enlightened society to behave and act. fucker it takes a lot of a lot of thinking and action it takes a long time for that thing to

1:47:27 We're treating the symptom. We are at risk of becoming an oligarchy. Like, watch out. So it is out there that, you know, that we have these fundamental problems. You got to take the money out? You got to read it, man. That's easier said than done. Yeah, who knows? I do believe in the outsider thing. I would have to see what the fuck would happen because that guy doesn't give a shit.

1:50:36 you know at some point you know then they end up spending 25 percent of their time inside of the But I mean, if you did it like, you know, first of all, if you did it like the UK does it and shorten the election season. We got debates and debate season. Yeah, man. It's a great team sport. It's going on forever. We've got a root, root, rah, rah. We've got debates and debate season.

1:51:40 I bet millions. What do you want it to say? I got the hat on. It's like went to college and ranked number one in global math, science. And then there's some shit from fracking that definitely got into the wall. But the other part of me was like, that is when things get done, is when you have this outpouring of emotion. he won the game so this is the game and this is how the game works.

1:54:21 You know, and if we can slowly move that battleship towards a more rational place. Yeah? Or confidence. I did when I was a teenager. You'd be freaking out? so English muffins thing about him. Oh, really? Well, it's true. Well, yeah, I mean, maybe. Hard drugs? Wandering the world. It has that sort of, that sheen that it just kind of, the bubble it puts over you.

1:59:06 A scene came with that. Sweet. my mind and crack and i thought in the middle of the night it'd be a really good idea to join the but it was... and kind of a great delusional from the inside with crack? Did you go, oh, you went 12-step? Well, you know, I'm kind of a, you know, it I just enjoy it Yeah. Like, well, I don't need a 12-step program to tell me not to do stupid shit.

2:02:21 I wish it was that rational. There's some great. They hate it. I'm sure he did. But he was still doing acid. That's right. Okay, it is. And again, it's disempowering in a way, isn't it? Because you're treating everybody as if you are the weakest possible example. doldrums, the That's why, that's the point. You know, there's no prescribed method for spiritual awakening or life-saving or life

2:05:53 You know, I have my podcast. I'm going to be hosting the Maps podcast. I was a technology consultant and a branding consultant whether that's just something as mundane as having a new website to coming up January. I'll do it. 2017, folks. Is it just Zach Leary? It's fun. also known as Grapefruit Simmons.