Joe Rogan Experience #954 — Justin Brown Transcript

Transcript

0:00 5, 4, 3, 2, 1 But yeah, no law enforcement on my end. I'm just a biologist. Well, listen, man, I've read about your work in not off the top of my head but This is in Burbank. And I just remember thinking, this is so strange. These are like wild dogs that live like right amongst us. And then from then on, I've had some encounters. I had a coyote steal a chicken from

2:03 there, so I worked in Chicago for a long time. We were tracking coyotes in some incredibly urban areas there, like right along Lakeshore Drive in Chicago. relationship with coyotes i had um dan flores on the podcast last month who's the author of coyote And so it's nice to have something like Dan's book to kind of reference people to. she comes out and tries to run them off.

4:09 the dog and start trying to like nip at its back and the dog the people move on scientists and i don't know if that's the story you read or not but we're basically having people collect coyote scat from Human trash. Yeah, you know, I was talking with a friend about it, and he was saying that he hates them. even when there's not a lot of prey available, they're able to take advantage of these different fruiting trees. Yeah.

6:07 I mean, there's other predators too. collar a few animals so we could kind of see what's going on and how these animals are persisting down And then we'll throw a collar on them. They're a lot like a dog. And they just lay there. of uh we've actually had a bobcat project going on since 1996 and so we've been collaring those guys Yeah. I was like, look at this cocky bitch.

9:12 They're making it because there's resources for them to take advantage of. I mean, after tracking coyotes in Chicago, And then we ended up seeing her with five pups probably a week later. animals, we're like, no, they've got pretty small home ranges. They're kind of living just in the I mean one thing I encourage people to do scare the stupid coyote off like because

11:42 for a long time it's just people cannot get comfortable with the idea of there being a medium-sized predator in these urban environments. What's a small one? Yeah. towards where the chickens are. He was with the coyote right next to it. heck to live in downtown. They've got to be like crossing roads. it's amazing. Like I watch them walk up to these busy roads.

14:31 Huh. All of a sudden somebody will peek out in the street to go around their car and they'll cut between the cars and go down the sidewalk. So whenever someone would give an estimation, it's really just a rough guess. It's a very rough guess. A lot of times what they'll do is they'll Like what did they use to identify the animals? And it doesn't, these coyote scats end up getting more spiraled inside.

16:42 And we can tell them apart from like bobcats because bobcats kind of get this. And I was like, what is this from? We actually have a lion study that one of my colleagues collared. colleague Jeff they they did a lot of work to get that photo well Jamie's Because that seems so crazy, it doesn't even look like a real photo. Really? God, it's a huge cat.

19:09 general area because he's blocked by freeways and yet there hasn't been any conflicts with him and So what is like a square mile? and then some DWP property next to the park. maybe the world urban park uh it's a pretty big park it is but what is it but when you compare So the big males usually kill the smaller males. So do they kill them to bring the females to estrus or they do them just because they're

21:53 right i mean we get the same thing with coyotes people don't want the coyotes there with the when you start trying to remove these animals. dogs. Yeah, I'm not familiar with that one, but we definitely haven't seen that with ours. just go whoa yeah i mean I think it's probably more I mean, we've had livestock taken, but that's about it. Wow, really?

24:34 to do with a prey drive. for them just to kind of sit there and look at you and judge your situation You'd have to talk to my colleague. There's a mountain lion in San Juan Capistrano that's been attacking this farm. Because they'll feed on a deer for a week or more. they're jumping around making all these noises and so then the animals get excited and i mean

26:54 P52, is that the name of it? 10 llamas yeah in a in a setting yeah so us in national National Wildlife Federation actually started working with her to try to help pin to teach livestock owners how to secure their animals so that that stuff doesn't happen is there a way they can um do something that like uh emits a They sometimes they capture them and then they move them to a new area, right?

28:33 We do what we need to do to them. Like maybe a dart that shoots a GPS unit in them or something. I'm not, like I said, I'm not the guy that does all the lion work so i just help out the cat must be like jesus christ they And there seems to be some sort of correlation between those poisons and why these animals get sick. rats that are sick from the...

30:26 I can't believe there's that many mountain lions in the Santa Monica Mountains. Is that what you said? Yeah, sure. I mean, it's 155,000 acres. little bit up in the Simi Hills. But the mountains themselves are mostly south of 101. Is that's really common like the people leave out food. Yeah, sometimes it's intentional. Sometimes it's not like feeding your dog outside

32:51 but I don't think it's like a super big food source for them. I mean, I wouldn't rule it out. And figs fruit twice a year, a lot of the varieties of figs. Yeah, I mean whether it's edible to us or whether we would want to eat them different question, I guess. Yeah It's like, ooh, Jesus Christ. And so these people followed this coyote all around the street.

35:07 Just chillin', eatin' a cat right in front of everybody. That coyote may actually have mange. Yeah. Really? Yep. I thought it just, look at that one cat. It's like, oh, that's my friend. that was a pretty easy prey they could have just grabbed it so are coyotes much faster than cast something intentionally out there and then the coyotes are taking advantage. And do you

37:20 Yeah. All you're doing is encouraging them to everywhere yeah they literally are in every state in every every city, in the entire country, except Hawaii. Except Hawaii, yep. I'm like, well, we've been trying to do that for a long time and it's not working. And so it's really about trying to reduce the amount of food that we are responsible for. like having a cup of coffee or something,

39:30 Exactly. Like I would be really weird if that was, uh, Well, I have a puppy right now. Yeah. The whole coyote dog thing is complicated. you start thinking ecologically, it makes sense, right? Like they're so related that there's lots related species much easier than it does to say between a cat and a dog wow so i mean there's a And is this something that's transmitted through wildlife as well?

43:37 Is it on just understanding their range, where they are, or is it, do you try to do something I mean, that always comes up anytime budgets are dealt with. That's awesome. Now, when you're dealing with these animals and you're collecting data and information, do you guys share it with people that maybe other peers that you have that work in much larger areas?

45:39 So, like, people drive through. cars learned who they were so every time they would come up the kite would disappear back into on them. And so a lot of times we want to keep them on long-term. So we actually understand the And when they came back, there was a period of thousands of years of them being preyed one you think like well keeping the coyote population down no you probably raised it up

48:06 upon. event that happens inside the female that when the population grows smaller, their litters It is absolutely fascinating how adaptable they are, though. Yeah, no, I mean, the coyotes, they definitely, there's not any other species that's been able to move around the country like they have. And yet the coyotes seem to be able to persist, I mean, anytime you get in these urban environments.

50:05 Whoa. problem with coyotes? Yeah. Usually, it seems to be tied to people who have been feeding it. You heard about that woman who was a folk singer in Canada that got killed a couple It's way different than what we see down here. But they've learned that they can take advantage of moose during the winter. There's no wolves there. So when they have the radio collar, how much information are they getting?

52:55 And that's a pretty good-sized caller. Like how long does a, like if you stretch it out the longest, how long can they last? The VHF allows us to actually go out and track the animals. Yep. And that's why, like, P-22 has been captured so many times because we have to replace the collar why I like P22 has been captured so many times we have to replace the collar right so it's usually about every two years

54:58 And so we were hiking into, I don't know if we were looking for a kill or if we were just checking I'm out there with my Captain America shield. Yeah, I don't think I want to carry that through the brush, though. There's no one out there. somebody, but found out that you guys put up there even, Really? so we have seen that the 101 freeway is a major barrier to gene flow and so things like even

58:23 Yeah, I have a buddy that works there, too. Yeah. It is. Well, it's so large. It's everywhere. It's amazing. I mean, there used to be tons of elk here, right? There's a town up near Tohon that's named after the last guy that got killed by a grizzly bear in California before they wiped him out. into pieces and that's why Yeah. Lebec. Like they're not going to live up in the high mountains.

1:01:59 Yeah. I mean, it's crazy how many, especially during the rut when they're breeding and they get silly. They eat a lot of browse, a lot of brush. You basically I'm not that person. Hmm. Oh, they're bad. So it's really about like arching that shot in there really softly, We don't. Like, what, like, because you must have, like, the drop must be huge. So I would imagine that a dart is not going very fast.

1:05:40 They don't come in those measurements. I mean, it basically looks like a syringe with a needle on the end, So that's... It actually has a, so ours, at least the ones we use for the deer, we use these type as well. kind of how we adjust for that distance so are you walking around with a range finder yeah and then you're you're changing it on your Oh, I see.

1:07:57 It's not going to hit a vital, right? We have archery targets that we shoot at, yeah. So how often are you practicing? so we don't want to dart them while they're How many have you darted? Four more. It can be anywhere from, I I think the caller 60 points a day That's the idea is just to help them be able to get across. I believe so. Yeah. you think of a large deer with a big rack.

1:11:18 a chance to get that big because there's the populations are pretty small or is a I wish I could. So what other animals are you guys concerned with, People complaining? He'll cut funding. Considerable man hours, right? They have to move egg masses, basically, is what they do. Bitches. It'd be like, why am I here? don't know the interaction between a lot of these species. So a lot of it's just trying to make sure

1:14:48 here? No, I wish I could. I wish I could. Obviously, I don't have that kind of power. which is fairly large, 150,000 acres, just use a trap? Yeah, people don't like to see blood. Is, what happened to rat traps? Like, how about just use a trap? That's frightening to me, We put tons of toxicants out there that we have no idea the actual long-term effects or how it's going to change things.

1:16:46 And maybe that's how the mountain lion got it anyway. They're dying of dehydration basically because they're just bleeding out internally. I heard you mention it. And they show all the people dealing with them and so large in new york city they think there as many rats as there are people or more. I was in New York City way back in the day. It was so long ago there was pay phones. hole for rats. Yeah. And they'll just be like, Whoa, look at what the hell's going on here.

1:19:30 Good Lord. I'm gonna freak out like a little girl Yeah. Yeah. You're not going to do it. to try to raise i think the cost it's over 50 million dollars to do this yeah so it's a big So you're probably dealing with a few hundred yards or something. easy way to go from the the Santa Monica's in the south to the Simi Hills It's all, for the most part, I believe it's all from either conservation agencies or from private donations.

1:23:23 into public land? They're really smart with that, because Well, you don't get much more beautiful place than around Boulder. But it's amazing that they've managed to go so long I mean, there's always the little nuisance issues that everybody's trying to deal with We're a lot drier. Really? Yeah, my friend who recognized the mountain lion poop, lot of berries and stuff. Yeah, I found some skunk poop. Yeah, my friend who

1:26:29 I'm pretty sure it was an actual skunk. The little creeps. Really? Yeah. Yeah. They're, they're apparently they like to eat chickens. And we're looking around. like for me they're another species you don't need a drug to handle i can just you can just Yeah, that's dedication right there. I wasn't like, I ran into him at a conference one time and we got chatting about what he did.

1:28:40 figured it out and they would swoop down and slam into the fence headfirst we KO'd quite a few Yeah, it's amazing. And it was huge. It looked, I couldn't believe how big it looked. It's still up there that I got online of this owl swooping down and jacking a hawk in its next. though check out this video because it's really nuts i was gonna show you a picture i saw the

1:31:18 It was pretty crazy, comparable to the golden eagle. Obviously. I don't know. They are. Like, man, we're really lucky that we can see these things. that they get to see. I identify more with the people who think it's cool. Yeah. Al Madrigal we'll'll see you then. Bye-bye.