Joe Rogan Experience #995 — Jon Ronson Transcript

Transcript

0:00 three two one John Ronson welcome back Joe it's good to be back good to see you again very good porn set which I'm tech nerd in Brussels. That was like in the 90s. where we are now in the valley, if you're a porn star accounts, that seems unlikely. I mean, I would believe that maybe mortgages, they would think Right. But because he wasn't ostensibly a porn person, he was a tech person who was deemed to be respectable.

4:28 because Fabian was giving the world what they wanted, And there was a lot of like moral. It was a huge issue. And there was a lot of, like, moral debate. But, you know, porn consumers didn't care. baller character and then it all dried up it all dried up i mean all dried up. I mean, it dried up quick. Yeah. It all went into Fabian's pocket. So the ads?

6:37 You know you're doing well when you get your own diver. And when the porn industry essentially, for the most part, collapsed, or at least there was a massive amount of loss. So you walk in. He'd call it progress. don't think about consequences on the internet that much. I have never uploaded pirated porn. i don't but that thing about not taking responsibility for your own actions i just

10:00 watched, he's called Brandon. If you've ever watched Pornhub on your mobile, maybe it would have been good if more Pornhub people did set foot on porn sets because you He's interested in the kind of piracy issue in music. It's fine. But I think that all got that all got solved. And it didn't matter because everything else was free. Now all the porn films have to be easily searchable.

14:17 So I said to Mike, because I thought about like Women of Influence versus Stepdaughter Cheerleader Audrey. So if you're not a teen and you're not a MILF, of this of the show i just stumbled upon it you know knowing that you were going to be here i Say if you want to make a film about girls wearing Mutant Ninja Turtle outfits who kick Like a couple of thousand dollars.

17:08 Yeah. She's like Gabe, so she's going, Maybe it's like, oh, my God, if this tub of mayonnaise falls on the floor or falls on this woman, like, we're all fucked. Whoa. and once a year he sends one to a custom producer and so he does it once a year so that's his thing like you can easily buy yeah so anyway so his stamps lost all of their value the stamp stores

20:26 According to him, I mean, I never talked to the psychiatrist, but according to him, yeah, Well, the only, I mean, one good thing that came out of it was he really enriched the imaginations of the people in the valley. But it's all weird, right? you are loved. So they made it anyway. They made the video for him. Like they say nice things. honesty group a radical honesty have you come across radical honesty no i don't think so you

23:57 Anyway, so she went to a radical honesty group where you have to be radically honest to each other. The one that Starley went to, the first guy I was driving a truck. well, my secrets are pretty disappointing compared to that. he had to like, that's part of these radical honesty groups in New Orleans child in the world learns about sex these days and I said did you ever get so into it that you

26:53 whereas men, they have very specific tastes So there's no longer the kind of outlaw status about coming to the Valley to do porn that they used to be in like the 80s and 90s now you know the valley's like flooded with women who who you know Throughout May she was working. And she said, well, a bunch of porn producers told me it looked bad for my brand.

29:10 But, I mean, I think it's an inherently, for whatever reason, in my estimation and in many others, a depressing business. but if you have sex on film yeah and everybody gets to watch the shame yeah yeah it's weird it's hills. And some teenagers had cottoned on to what was happening, that a porn film was being shot, like up on a nearby hill. quite respectful. And the people that were mocking them, first of all, they're young,

31:37 see people's comments, whether it's to me or to somebody else. And they're so fucking Yeah, I'd say there's certainly an element to that. I see it all the time. gone through all of that as a result of my You were guilty of wrongthink. but it contains uh racist characters so a blogger took some of the quotes that the racist characters So that's a quote from the book,

34:25 It's like it's an industry. The book is doing well, like on Amazon, and people actually read the book aren't offended by it. it might just be, there's many instances where people are attacked by one person i mean there are racists just but how come you're allowed to make a fictional character about a You know, the expression, recreational outrage. Possibly.

36:49 don't try and put in a person of colour as a character. But now suddenly I'm being told like that's not that's not good I shouldn't do that well you'll be told you're being told you shouldn't Right. That's a different thing. It could easily be misconstrued. any you know civilization on earth yeah and I know this one when you know And I can't help thinking that the left eating itself

39:25 People are fed up. With personal insults and like we'd never seen that before from someone running for president. Like, this was stunning. but something like it's modern presidential to tweet. you play she said if you play with the twitter toy then it's your fault if you get burned why I wonder whether some of the Twitter executives ever feel guilty about what they've done.

42:00 She was amazing. my parents were good parents. I think she went up to them at a picket of David Bowie's memorials. And that's what persuaded her out of the Westboro Baptist Church. But it's not all people. And then when she was asleep. everyone from, like, misogynistic i think that's oh i don't think it dropped their business off at all oh i think it did i think i

44:50 like deep fears, that story. I don't think it did. trust and verify council? getting attention and being a victim and exploiting it to the nth degree. criticism now if you have ideas in the open marketplace of ideas and you have They're not musicians. of misogynists sort of gang up on a When someone goes after someone on the right, even if it's a woman.

47:45 That's someone's mom. about how women are being bullied by men and i said um you know i've no doubt that that happens And, you know, the problem is not going to go away until we. that I look at in the butterfly effect about the tech takeover of porn is that if you're a 25-year-old to talk to anybody. I've had so many people call me some sort of a right-wing monster.

51:13 have to you don't have to fall into those categories it's just be easier for people And I think that's where the real issues lie. these, a lot of that stuff was very left wing. we would have some sort of universal healthcare because I think the idea of someone being Yeah. That's right. It didn't go well? I went to the RNC and I sort of, you know, got back in with

54:40 1998. Yeah, I was at his Yeah, that's exactly what he said. He said he tests It's the pot, whatever, the self-reflective, paranoia-inducing marijuana. That's a good question. I don't know. I mean, first of all, I don't see how Trump can have Yeah. there's a bunch of people that enjoy Alex, right? One thing freaked me out. And there does seem to be amongst the American ruling elites, there does seem to be a proclivity for ritual.

57:48 So that is interesting. Did he say it at some point in time? and he would be the one sacrificed in the belly of the owl oh no um so he went in separately to And then we saw Alex and Mike Hansen, Owls? But I think it's like, I think it's an owl sanctuary. I mean, Norman Bates' mom is, is that for are you a first timer? and there was Alex and Mike wide-eyed,

1:00:59 But they were into it. And somebody said, OK, so I know what you think of it. irrational thoughts in powerful places, over there. This is real. the ritual. At one point, So that's how it starts. reason like you know skull and bones exists for a reason well they have something over you it could Of course. about all the exaggerations Megyn Kelly's people, because

1:04:37 and they would talk to each other and so on. via Roger Stone. Like, I have a very fucked up relationship with Alex I just base it on my interactions with him. people look for fucking conspiracies in everything and i don't know what it is i have friends that have you into either buying this or voting for that. what i do know is like you i saw final product. And the final product was basically Megyn Kelly looking incredibly poised, saying, you know, you're wrong, Alex.

1:07:49 Yes. Where they were sort of buttering felt forced to basically him yeah well they felt forced by like the people pushing back against Remember that? You know, you can decide that He's got a hat that's red and white But what's important is that her whole thing was being this spokesperson, this ultra-hot spokesperson for the conservative movement, And now they pulled the show.

1:10:21 Well, I mean, the mainstream. panicky, selective editing I'm sure. and rant about something for 15 minutes or whatever it is, with no limitations or restrictions, just so into chemtrails and proving that chemtrails are real. to see him the way I see him Yeah. is that he has a conspiracy template and whatever whatever real-world event happens, he gets shoehorns into this kind of simplistic template.

1:13:09 Like he's got like, Here we go. You're so mean. that his children could have seen. Like, is that like, what is that? Like all he did was say it was horrible. actually cut people's heads off and show them on camera. And a bunch rose to the top There was also... I guess that's the look that Zucker's looking for. She's not a special interest. But I disagree in that I don't think

1:17:53 Alex did say to me when I was writing this book, You're so great. You're great. You've got such influence. This is according to Glenn Beck? Right. That's convenient. called up Alex and said, you're so influential You can get him riled up. That's who he is. But I know you can get him riled up that's who he is but i do smart. Like Alex always gave him like gave himself a sort of parachute on this relationship. So,

1:21:26 This was something that I didn't know was a standard tactic by the military and by certain politicians. And these guys with masks and government issue boots came in, started smashing windows, lighting Jamie's like, we need some dance music here. independent news reports, how was fascinating because there's a lot-protest zone. And the no-protest zone was fascinating,

1:23:49 Wow. Do you remember Aryan Nations in Idaho? It's crazy. Yeah gorgeous it's crazy yeah Randy and Vicky and their children, they weren't as crazy as the people at Aryan Nations. So Randy sawed off the shotgun for this guy. They went back to their cabin and a warrant was issued for Randy's arrest thinking they were being watched from the bushes and he turned around and tried to run back to the cabin shouting dad

1:27:59 U.S. Marshals had been killed. And the sharpshooter shot Vicky through the face happening uh to to you know helped you know to get Randy out of the cabin um and in the end the So I said, I'm Church of England. Protecting me. I know. wearing a wire i forget we're live they're good yeah so i think i think they protected me in that It was my own stupid fault.

1:31:20 european atheist are you still a jew yeah well. Well, I mean, I am, basically. And they all went, ah. what the fuck am I playing with here? I don't believe it anymore. And the joke of the film is that, with like slogans like Islam is the future of Britain. And they were going leaflets like attached to these balloons uh with like slogans like islam I've been around the block.

1:34:36 I went to visit Infowars last summer, last August. I said to her, because I went to the custody hearing for a couple of days. I say, like, yeah. Momo and then you get mad think think about me saying the word fuck. So I'm with you, but this is just to let but I will not fucking rob you. I'm the umpire. mean do you think alex regrets the fact that the you know that the spotlight is on him in a kind

1:38:18 Trying to stick to my diet, but it's hard. He didn't really say that. Oh Jesus Christ. He did't even realize he did that. Oh, Jesus Christ. Yeah, he did. properly stressed him out Like, if it was you That's incredible considering you're in a jihadi camp. No, I know him, man. you know I think the deeper and the more crazy he goes the better his show is more it's entertaining

1:41:02 we actually handle it really well. Do you remember that Dames? I met with him. Okay, yeah talking to me about how they found, you know various bad people because basically they sat in a fucking room all day i tell you how i came to this story. I said to him, so when you were like in the military, like sniffing around with the remote viewers, did you happen to notice like anything else going on?

1:43:49 And I said to them, like, so where's Goat Lab? I mean, I would argue that if you stare at a goat long enough, So we tracked down the goat starer. And he went, well, as a matter of fact, So we flew to Ohio to meet Guy Cervelli. So he really believed it? Oh, I love Catherine Zeta-Jones. Drops down and stops moving amid the sawdust. Yeah. Screen please you need to put a guy's fairly amount

1:47:55 favorite stuff. It's all like pokes. Ooh, the artery. of blood through their body pause every second what's one thing about bullshit artists is they Good. With your I don't know why, man. Oh, he's got new stuff. He's touching him. No, no, no. This is your bread and butter. This is... well... Oh, it's solid? Oh, no way. I would let that guy do that to me.

1:51:43 It's not really military but he's Right. It's going in a manner how what's the way we describe it so if you're holding something up I was 15 and we would do these karate kicks and punches and stuff. Well, I mean, it wasn't like, I don't believe it was like a sanction from the very top. there was a lot of fake martial arts out there. Like, if we don't try this stuff, nobody else will try this stuff.

1:54:20 And they were killing goats. and so on. So he was like head of Because he told me one time, he would like stand up from behind his desk and like you know basically run into it you should He was trying to merge the spaces between his atoms and the wall's atoms. who's a skeptic yeah very nice guy and and you know dj including Ed Dames in, I don't know,

1:56:56 then, so Ed Dames taught them remote They'd remote viewed the Hale-Bopp comet Prudence Calabrese and another guy whose name I forgot. or even someone who would watch that guy's karate videos and think that he's really doing I bet you probably couldn't kill a goat with a karate chop. So is it true in the Death Touch world that people think you can do the dim mac on someone

1:59:46 You might have missed it. Thank you for using an English word, by the way. Have you ever seen what happens when one of these fake death touch guys fights a real fighter? beat the living fuck out of this guy in like 10 seconds like the guy came out horseshit is on youtube i mean he literally finds out in this moment that what he's, I mean, he probably believed it.

2:01:40 them shake hands. Yep, they shake hands. Oh. And you just go, oh, Jesus Christ. Look, he's not even touching these people. So this is like a con, right? He might have actually believed it. and then, just like that other video, And he's holding his mouth. This time it's going to work. Prophet hologram? What about the gay bomb? you'd turn the enemy gay

2:06:21 You throw a lot of shit against the wall and only like one tenth of it sticks. Yeah. Like one frame. And he was telling me about all of this stuff. Those guys are just fucking winging it, man. He was telling me about all of this weird shit. helped get him out of Guantanamo. help to turn him into a jihadi? It's stained my soul. And where did he kill himself?

2:09:18 from around that time. that his father might get hurt Here we go. Jamal al-Haith I was, well, Jamal, I just met that one time. Oh, you mean if. and now he's in jail for life. her teeth horrific horrific and she she was here with him And what the effect it has on one person is very different than the effect it has on another person. Wasn't that the story?

2:12:55 one of the items on the psychopath checklist is like grandiose sense of self-worth i wonder whether And the way I describe mixed martial arts is high-level problem solving with dire physical consequences. some of them get hit a lot and uh you know now that we're knowing more and more essentially Oh, yeah, for sure. And they suffer. chronic traumatic encephalopathy.

2:15:24 press officer for WWE phoned me up and yelled at me. Yelled at you?clock in the morning the press officer for WWE phoned me up and I don't think I tricked them. of my working life, hanging out with the porn people. dicking. I didn't know dicking. And like where, what's the furthest I could find the furthest consequence. every 12 year old. I'm sure.

2:17:51 I think when we were and Bridges Yeah, about finding perversion. It was very strange. Yeah. And she didn't respond. i said like if she'd so he can't go to football games, basketball games, Boys and girls, by the way. first of all where the fuck were the parents So I said to this woman who defends children on the sex offenders registry, Yeah, exactly.

2:22:00 He needs to, like, fill out this sex offenders book, like, at therapy. He says it's like being permanently grounded. Oh my God. and the parents told the police. what a butterfly effect And, you know, the other thing that's weird is that porn, for the most part, I mean, other than this bespoke porn, which is very specific, but porn, there's like levels to the depravity that never existed before.

2:23:45 And then it gets weirder and gagging and all this, you know. Well, I'll tell you what's like a rumor. But actually, when I was on the set of Stepdaughter Cheerleader Audrey, poor Mike Quasar, the director, that's hilarious my porn people that the people are sleazy and uncaring and doing coke and smacking each other. And isn't that kind of nuts that that's rare in porn?

2:26:18 Exactly, yeah. they get exploited. And what it was was it didn't really pay much, And it was like some of this weird thing that like, God, We're going to go to dinner and have a wonderful time. And airtight is a dick in every hole. lesbian scene and there was a scene like there was a a cartoon character a comic book character I was like, hmm, I don't know if I'm buying all this. I was like, this just seems weird.

2:29:39 Like, why? And when they leave porn, this is another consequence of Fabian that I look at in the show, will be spotted and outed and, as a consequence, fired. Yeah. Started telling everybody. Yeah. Yeah. And yeah, she... Italy, they've got it. are the most accepting You know, when you say urban, you just say black people. Like, what are you saying?

2:33:24 It's just a weird term. now? Have you said enough? What do you think? Oh, beautiful. And tell people how they can find your stuff. The biggest collection of audio co-wrote this movie called Oak Joe, Thank you.