Barbara Freese

Date: 2020-07-01 | Duration: 1h 53m

Episode Overview

Barbara Freese, environmental attorney and author of "Industrial-Strength Denial," joins Joe to trace how powerful industries have suppressed inconvenient truths for centuries. Freese examines eight case studies of corporate denial — from the slave trade to tobacco, leaded gasoline, radium, and climate change — revealing common playbook tactics: funding skeptical scientists, attacking consensus, and buying time with manufactured uncertainty. She explains the legal history of limited liability corporations and how corporate structures enabled moral distancing, discusses China's surprising embrace of carbon market mechanisms, and dissects how even regulators can be captured by the industries they oversee. The conversation is a master class in recognizing the architecture of denial and understanding why truth-telling institutions struggle against well-funded disinformation campaigns.

About Barbara Freese

Barbara Freese is an accomplished author and environmental attorney, known for her groundbreaking work in combating climate change and promoting environmental justice. A former assistant attorney general in Minnesota, she has leveraged her legal expertise to advocate for sustainable practices and accountability in industrial sectors. Freese's latest book, *Industrial-Strength Denial*, explores the pervasive resistance to climate science, offering a compelling examination of how societal denial impacts environmental policy. With a unique blend of legal insight and passionate advocacy, she captivates audiences by illuminating the urgent need for action in the face of climate challenges. Through her engaging narratives, Freese not only informs but inspires change, making her a significant voice in the environmental discourse.

Key Moments

– Corporate Denial and Disinformation Playbooks
– History of the Slave Trade and Corporate Complicity
– Radium Industry and Occupational Hazards
– Climate Change Denial Tactics
– Limited Liability Corporations and Moral Distancing
0:00:00 – Barbara Freese on climate denial and her Minnesota legal work
0:12:32 – The slave trade's rationalization and corporate complicity
0:27:04 – When did limited liability corporations emerge?
0:39:40 – China uses market forces and carbon pricing
1:16:15 – Radium workers exhaling radon — measurable by the standards of the time
1:38:50 – How corporations benefit from denial they spun into the world

Transcript Excerpt

Starting point is 00:00:00 And we're rolling. How are you, Barbara? What's happening? I'm good, Joe. How are you? Pleasure to meet you. Pleasure to meet you. How did you get started on this, and how did you get interested in the subject? I got interested in this subject through climate change, climate denial specifically. I'm an environmental attorney, and back in the 1990s, I worked for the state of Minnesota. 1990s, I worked for the state of Minnesota. And we found ourselves very briefly sort of on the front lines of the scientific debate over climate change. And the way that happened was the state Starting point is 00:00:33 had passed a law saying that utilities regulators should try to estimate the cost to the environment of generating electricity. We get most of our power from coal, or we did then. electricity. We get most of our power from coal, or we did then. And so we looked at coal emissions. We looked at the traditional pollutants that we had regulated for a long time. And my client was the Pollution Control Agency, so I was familiar with those. What we also looked at, though, and I wasn't familiar with, was CO2 and its effect on climate change. Because while that was a big issue globally, there was already a global treaty signed to fight climate change. States had not taken a look at that. And what happened was we struck a nerve with the coal industry. Starting point is 00:01:20 And they sent to Minnesota a bunch of witnesses, a bunch of scientists, to testify that we did not have to worry about climate change and it wasn't going to happen. Or if it did, it would be just a little and we'd like it. Panel on Climate Change, those scientists that the rest of the world, including the U.S. government and the treaty signed by George H.W. Bush, the ones that they were relying on, those scientists were basically biased. They were biased because they were in it for the money somehow. They wanted research grants or they had some political agenda. It was kind of v...

More Episodes

Frequently asked about this episode

Who was the guest on Joe Rogan Experience #1500?

Barbara Freese was the guest on JRE #1500. This page includes the episode overview, topics discussed, and related resources.

What topics were discussed on JRE #1500?

On Joe Rogan Experience #1500 with Barbara Freese, topics include Corporate Denial and Disinformation Playbooks, History of the Slave Trade and Corporate Complicity, Radium Industry and Occupational Hazards, and Climate Change Denial Tactics.

Where can I read the transcript for JRE #1500?

The full searchable transcript for Joe Rogan Experience #1500 with Barbara Freese is available on this page, along with key topics and timestamps.