Joe Rogan Experience #1870 — Max Lugavere Transcript

Transcript

0:00 The Joe Rogan Experience. So you were telling me before we got rolling, I said, save it, let's just talk about it. Yeah. opportunity to go with her to different doctor's appointments. And I grew up in New York city. So drugs for both Alzheimer's disease and Parkinson's disease. It wasn't until a few years later that the first symptom, 10, 20, 30 years even by some estimates. And so for me, this became something

4:00 documentary on dementia as a potentially preventable condition. We've all seen that is, that's a very empowering insight. That means that we have agency to change our cognitive actually, at Weill Cornell in New York. And I actually became, ultimately I became, um, a collaborator with the, uh, just severely downshifted almost, almost overnight. Um, and so my mom never, my mom never like forgot

7:04 environmental factors or any other things that people consume? there are basically two categories of risk. You have your non-modifiable risk factors, making them, therefore, a non-modifiable risk factor. CTE, yeah. When you look to people, we've evolved these different isoforms of the APOE gene. So we have APOE2, 3, and 4. And just to reiterate, is sort of the canary in the coal mine for the Western way of life.

10:49 But if you were to take somebody with that same genotype, right, and move them to a less Is that why this ApoE4 is less prevalent than it is in other cultures? You know, it's possible, although with age being the primary risk factor, it's unlikely that that has put significant selection pressure. disease and this gene expression, so the APOE4 allele is, you have it, but it's not necessarily

13:15 between their genes and their environment. So excluding environmental factors like pollutants There are studies that look at what's called brain glucose metabolism. So when I say sometimes I use Alzheimer's disease and dementia interchangeably, but with Alzheimer's disease, one of the primary features Yeah. I mean, they do what are called FTG PET tests, scans. So they'll just look to see glucose

16:11 versus resistance. The sort of classic condition that we see here in the US characterized by So insulin resistance, obviously the hallmark of type 2 diabetes. That explains Bert Kreischer. problems that are going to happen with your body. 100%. I mean, you can be more or less healthy at a given size, right? It's insane. brain. So, and we can tackle this from a number of different angles, but when you exercise,

19:33 You're reducing blood pressure. You're normalizing healthy blood pressure. This is something that is, And mild cognitive impairment is sort of a prodrome. It's considered like pre-dementia. derived neurotrophic factor. And we know this because it's very easy to get a mouse to run on you're building up your musculature, which is going to allow you to continue to exercise and

23:02 to develop mild cognitive impairment. So it's really progressive of them. Yeah. I'm glad they're doing that now. could happen in modern medicine, especially with something that affects so many people's Alzheimer's. Alzheimer's disease. And so that's really been the target of drug therapy. But the problem was that they can never actually tie the plaque to cognitive decline, right?

25:52 which is the protein that makes up sort of the skeleton of these plaques that we see aggregate, So that was the missing link. and to see their cognition come back is sort of like thinking that if you remove all the headstones it renewed fervor in terms of this hypothesis but it didn't lead to any improvement in cognitive symptoms nonetheless it was given the green light

29:00 So 35% of the people in the trial But nonetheless, Like horrible risk of side effects, no clinically meaningful effect on, on, on the, on the symptoms that we want to improve, right. blot, which is like a visual representation of data, the presence of proteins and so forth. online, on social media, right? path for somebody wanting validation. It comes with prestige. It comes with money, comes with

33:25 If they're not already, of the amyloid hypothesis, right? that these researchers should have been asking all along and some have right like there there it was called breadhead and i could talk about why i named it that but that was always a sort right? Deeply invested in the amyloid hypothesis, came out and wrote an op-ed in the Wall Street Yeah, because the medication is profitable and that the whole avenue was thought to, you know, if you could find a drug that would reduce amyloid burden in the brain, I mean, that's going to make shareholders really happy.

37:12 experimenting with, you know, and this is a very difficult sort of road to go down. I guess it's disease, that ketogenic, a ketogenic diet intervention can actually improve functional for anybody, let alone somebody with dementia. So I can only, yeah, I can only speak for myself. They should pull it off the market. this drug is, is the, is the, you know, this is like version one.

40:22 Yeah. hypothesis and it hasn't been debunked and this fraudulent paper didn't test aducanumab the drug They're biochemical band-aids. Yeah. Smoking, excessive alcohol consumption, air pollution, hearing impairment. way that like cholesterol, you know, we, when you hear the term cholesterol, like, you know, we think of it as this bad pathologic thing that we want to get out of our bodies, right?

43:02 Which is vegans don't want to hear that ever. The premise is you want to do less harm. They won't even look at eggs, which are really kind of – I mean, if you have chickens or if you know someone has chickens or if you can get eggs from a place that has get chickens. But it wasn't just the coyotes got them all it was like the fire burnt the chicken coop down or we almost lost the house

45:42 that. And I didn't know that until I was 40, by the way. Fascinating. And I would dump them out on the ground. Cats have nothing on chickens. was like a glass wall then you could see the view it was like yeah that'd be better so we put this So they got a few of them and fed them to this hawk. And now all of a sudden this one is going to be your friend.

48:37 I'm like, this thing, it's not going to live. The other chicken is attacking that chicken, trying to pull it out of their mouth. Oh, my God. They're still trying to steal from her. there's this amazing dinosaur miniseries on Apple TV. They show you one option, So Jurassic Park and all those films, they're probably incorrect. So if anybody wants ethical, guilt-free, karma-free protein that's as good as your body's ever going to get, eggs.

51:27 It's, I mean, the yolk, it's like, again, a cognitive multivitamin. It's called de novo cholesterol synthesis. cholinergic sort of pathway. But yeah, choline is crucially important. It's found in egg yolks. he's like, I don't know whether or not these things could contain prions. How are they taking these? You're eating beef liver. How is this processed?

54:02 It's one of the most nutrient-dense foods there is. Yeah. That's a good option. Um, but, uh, but yeah. And then the paleo community, because I recently have sort of come the grain and seed oils like the canola, corn, soybean. I feel like bloated. of carotenoids. So carotenoids are like plant pigments. They're responsible generally in the Now, what are the criticisms against seed oils specifically?

58:10 and flavors, then you've got something that you can sell, right? For, I think it's like a 500 or Some of them like, uh, like the raped, contain toxins like urussic acid. Yeah. why these oils didn't, they didn't exist in the human food supply before a hundred years ago. Okay. The finished oil is light yellowish green in color. right, in the modern world. So what are the negative effects of things like industrialized

1:01:36 man-made trans fat consumption. Their most recognizable form was in partially hydrogenated And so we're over-consuming these fats. And it's created in myriad industrial processes. Like what about seed oils as they exist in salad dressings and the like? pro-inflammatory signaling molecules in the body, which are responsible for heat, pain, redness, because they've all undergone-

1:05:09 They're sitting, you know, with extra virgin olive oil, for example, rotting food on the counter and intuitively think to yourself, that looks good, right? I like to take the precautionary principle approach, right? These oils, again, they didn't as we consume more of these polyunsaturated fats, which again are what predominate these Vitamin E, yeah.

1:08:22 grain and seed oils than anywhere, anyone on the planet. You think that we consume a lot of grain and seed oils here in the United like the prize client of any, you know, these like more orthodox dietitians. So they exclusively will use extra virgin olive oil. Whoa. Zero. Yeah. So as far as oils that should be put on, say, like salad dressing, extra virgin olive oil, but you generally want to buy filtered. I know some people might see

1:12:34 I think just in a, you want to keep it away from the stove, So you want to buy the freshest extra virgin olive oil that you can find. Yeah. Balsamic vinaigrette I think is great. balsamic vinegar has a compound in it. I forget what the acronym stands for, but the acronym is Like that's not, you know, I think balsamic vinegar is great. multicenter randomized control trials. Right. But the research shows that regular consumers of

1:16:40 cognitive decline. But in young and healthy college students, they've actually shown that I think there are genes that play a role in this, or if, you know, somebody in your family, with dark leafy greens, like arugula, kale, spinach, things like that. I don't think that And so she ate, she was eating like two kilograms a day of raw bok choy. She grew a goiter on her neck. But I think most people are not gonna, you know,

1:19:36 time to keep up with or adapt to that shift? Yeah, exactly. So people that from one day to think about all that i mean i think paul's very smart he's a we're friends um but i disagree with we, whether or not we're able to re- reap benefit from these compounds that are to some degree toxic, right? Well, generally it's caused by not consuming enough fiber because we see that when you

1:23:01 my understanding is that sometimes the root cause of these problems can be bacterial overgrowth. Other than there's arsenic and apple seeds and things like that. Right. invasion of excess heat or cold and producing this beneficial effect to the overall body. That's incredible. You know, you want it to be a stress on the body. heart rate is increased. Uh, you get to, you get, you get this like feeling of, um, dysphoria that,

1:27:00 That's fucking high. Well, I was at 189 for 25 minutes, and I took it down to 185 or was it 189 for 25 minutes and I took it down to 185 for 20 because I was just I was so exhausted when I get out of there at 189 I was like I think have this morosco forge which is 34 degrees and here I have a blue cube at Then I go into the cold plunge for three minutes and it's easy.

1:29:13 I mean, I get to 25, 30 minutes and I still feel fine. But you acclimate, you know, over time, especially with Asano. I believe he's 56 or 57. I mean, look at the guy. That's Black Coffee. If he goes in the cold plunge first, then it kind of makes sense that he can get in for 20 minutes seems to be just like Banya that I do in LA sometimes and the cold plunge. Yeah. Do they beat you with the leaves?

1:32:30 because we already talked about the fact that having normal blood pressure people who have access to saunas here are probably also, well, they're going to the gym regularly, No, I've never been. It's, I think it's one of the most important things that I do. You're a beast. my overall like sense of And I look at all the people swishing with mouthwash after a workout.

1:35:38 great source of these compounds called nitrates, right? mouthwash. You're nuking indiscriminately the bacteria in your mouth that are pivotal, So, you know, I think alcohol is one of these things where, like, you know, if you have a healthy relationship with it and you drink infrequently, I think it's fine. Yeah, it has to. What about gum? Now, in terms of gum, you're not necessarily consuming the artificial sweetener, but the artificial sweetener is there in your mouth.

1:39:53 That's what I use. I mean, the toothpaste that I use, I look for nano hydroxyapatite. I don't And fluoride is one of them. So it scrambles your endocrine system? And I imagine it would be cumulative. And also, you know, just treacherous in general in terms of their, you know, their effects on our health. like estrogen in the body and it's everywhere. These are like the, the everywhere chemicals.

1:42:30 A metal, that's a steel glass of water if you want to drink that. um, but going back to the mouthwash, I mean, they've done studies that show that frequent users. So just to be clear, this is two or more times per day of antiseptic mouthwash have a 50% Now, is there a non-antiseptic mouthwash? Is there something that makes your breath smell good that's beneficial or not negative? I think, you know, they have like

1:44:14 grains, added sugars, I mean, these are the worst foods, right? Like anything that's going to cause I haven't used a fluoride toothpaste in some time. And I, when I was a kid, I was the kind of kid What sucks is like I am just a gigantic fan of pasta and bread. as hyper palatability. your instagram yeah it's at the top i pinned it at the top of my instagram it's so crazy yeah so

1:47:34 This was an attempt by researchers at Tufts University to create a food, a nutrient profiling system. listening. So Tufts, they made this chart with three different color systems, green to be That's just egg. Egg substitute fried in vegetable oil comes in higher than just a boiled egg. It's so crazy. It's backwards. Yeah. And until I'm convinced otherwise, an instrument designed to

1:50:31 Yeah. I have a friend and they ordered fresh squeezed orange juice. Like, like that orange juice is a healthy choice for somebody who has essentially glucose intolerance Apple juice is so crazy. whether we're talking about the, you know, the Alzheimer's paper that was fraudulent or this, So they're not going to say minimize your consumption of ultra-processed foods because the food industry would never let them.

1:53:10 Yeah. one i don't know what the fuck belgium's up to but this just this is like it's a joke it's like Yeah. Exactly. Not digital clocks, by the way. No. They're's right. She's like a broken clock. Yeah. Right twice a day. Yeah. Exactly. There was a woman recently that was jailed because her child died from malnutrition because crazy like osteoporosis and like you know low bone mineral density because like the mammary tissue

1:55:13 Yeah. It's fascinating. Yikes. wildly and just defending this but he's completely connected to these companies and and people were think that there's a, there's both an effect with like rinsing and like soaking in particular, um, can't really say that one is more nutritious than the other. Studies do show, obviously aside from And so these genetically modified organisms, these GMOs,

2:00:17 you know, but it's the, it's, it's generally, I believe it's, it's soy, it's corn. to be able to withstand heavy spraying by these chemicals. which is now Bayer, I think, after they purchased it. You have to prove that this is what caused your illness. Like, when you're talking about being able to provide grass-fed beef for 330 million people, show me.

2:02:33 Yeah. Right. But not everybody, first of all, not everybody's going to choose to eat the way that I, you're going to be growing your own produce. But also, like, sickness is massively environmentally taxing, right? you're talking about an animal that has free range because that's the only way they can consume that Yeah. So there's a few potential reasons for this, but it's been

2:06:26 Yeah. I wrote about this in my second book, The Genius Life. I mean, we don't, we don't, we haven't yet been able to quantify it, but when you dilute protein, right, in an organism, you're reducing the amount of amino acids. You can't think about sustaining the entire world. like, this is the argument well, everybody can't hunt. to change their life for the better, there are options available that are better for your overall

2:09:36 a message to a sick population, right? You have a responsibility to that population, right? To that that had the red heart healthy logo on it. That you know, that would end up in this, in the, in the shopping cart. but I do think that like, you know, had she had integrated some of these more nutrient dense foods, Um, but yeah, she was a big animal, animal rights advocate, lots of grain products. Um, not a ton of protein, like, you know, occasionally she would eat like lean skinless chicken breast, you know, or a piece of fish. But, um, but was always like very, very concerned about like cholesterol and things like that. So I do think that like, that's a dietary, that's, that is like the standard American diet. You know, that is to me, um, what, you know, how not to eat if you want to protect your brain over time based on like all the research that I've done since then.

2:12:47 companies and that the sugar companies literally bribed scientists to lie about what was causing to basically say that it wasn't sugar that was the Because so many of them have zero. highly bioavailable micronutrients like vitamin B12, like zinc, like creatine, which supports one is bad cholesterol. Yeah. So, I mean, neither are good or bad. HDL has long been considered the

2:16:17 media, for example, that saturated fat is bad, that's pseudoscience because a fat isn't a fat. observationally, people who consume full-fat dairy, even low fat or reduced fat dairy, have better cardiovascular health, better metabolic the worst cardiovascular health. And that's not what we see. We see the exact opposite. I think that low fat. It's like dirty water.

2:18:59 Full fat heavy cream. It's natural. It's thought to the fact that dairy is attributed to the fact that dairy contains something called milk fat globule membrane. help insulate neurons. And if you think about like the purpose that dairy serves for a neonate, to be more of like a YOLO food, more of like an indulgence food. Interesting. Um, yeah. So that chemically something has changed

2:23:14 have any effect on their LDL cholesterol, right? If you feed somebody butter, it will, you'll see in other dairy products. So for me, dairy is great. It's just that butter is one of these Yeah, probably because there's a higher proportion of carotenoids in the butter. Um, also, you know, when a cow is grass finished versus grain finished, it's a leaner animal.

2:25:49 Well, that's one of the weird things is that we've become accustomed to the taste of a sick cow. less fat on it and it tastes different. It's like a healthier animal too, because they're wandering Like you only get that if you're diabetes, right? If you've got type two diabetes and obesity. Or the Wagyu specifically. That's called intramyocellular lipid.

2:27:22 Yeah. That's good. No. Oh, God. Yeah. Not good. Los Angeles, you know, like even, and I, and I, I hate to promote the factory farm system It doesn't make any sense to eat grass-fed, grass-finished filet mignon because a filet mignon is a lean piece of meat. But if we're talking about a ribeye or ground beef, yeah, it does make sense to buy leaner beef because you're just skimming off what is ultimately determined by what a cow eats.

2:29:49 from a piece of salmon, for example, but still five times the omega-3s as compared to grain you're getting a higher proportion of stearic acid, Is there anything else you'd like to bring up? I love to bring on like, you know, dissenting opinions and kind of like expose my audience to as broad array of perspectives as possible. Like, but not not on the some on the podcast.

2:31:53 because they're medical doctors. And most of them are unaware even of their own biases, Because at the end of the day, like I think something that I'm really passionate about or I know that I'm really passionate about is fostering scientific literacy. always be willing to challenge their own assumptions and beliefs about things. You know, it's like most of what they talk about is just factually inaccurate and they don't take into account bioavailability.

2:34:35 compass, um, nutrient profiling system, but essentially like, you know, ultra processed cookie cutter advice to just eat less and move more. Right. So they focus on the quantity of and resilient you were. Resistance training, all that stuff obviously plays a role, but protein, It's fiber content. And then the third factor that makes a food satiating is its water content.

2:37:30 be would want to deplete our food environment of protein, right? I mean, some people will say, things like that but you don't get the kinds of like you know proprietary formulations that you Oof. Don't do that. Yeah. The company recently added another GMO ingredient, soy protein, from genetically modified yeast. The company recently added another GMO ingredient, soy protein from genetically modified soybeans.

2:39:58 were 11 times higher Oh, God. Right. Like if I need medical assistance, I'm going to a hospital, right? Right. There's so much of that where these people that give their opinions on these things have been bought and paid for. So thank you, Max. Well, I'm a big fan of yours too. So I'm glad we did this and let's do it again. And tell everybody one more time the name of your podcast, your Instagram, all that jazz. Yeah. So my podcast is called The Genius Life, available on all podcast platforms. My Instagram is at Max Lugavere, M-A-X-L-U-G-A-V-E-R-E.

2:44:16 world. Like clinicians will use it, um, to recommend to their patients. It's a, it really all the sort of more lifestyle stuff and then my third book just came out it was called genius