Joe Rogan Experience #1993 — Josh Dubin & Bruce Bryan Transcript

Transcript

0:00 The Joe Rogan Experience. For everyone to, like, guys started realizing while you were there, your story. Like, the word started getting around the green room, and it was one of those things, like, guys started realizing while you were there your story. Like, everybody wanted to hear the story everybody wanted to talk to you everybody Because I spent the last several years visiting him at Sing Sing,

2:17 Thank you. It's just an amazing, the comedy mothership is really a dream for the comedians. shoulder to shoulder with them. No one goes through that experience unscathed, right? Well, I was arrested back in 1994 for homicide. and being charged with a homicide while the prosecutor involved in your conviction a theory, as he did in my situation. drug dealing, it's easier to get someone that has a history of being involved in the streets to put a case on them than it is someone that doesn't.

5:46 getting convicted but went to federal prison for it. You know, I should give some context here because to the extent that Bruce is going to be guarded about certain details of his case, from a guy named Steve Zeidman that runs a clemency center at CUNY Law. And historically, especially in New York, you have to express contrition and explain to the parole board,

8:56 And I was really struck by his presence, by how articulate he was, one of the most well-read human beings. And I just got curious. But Bruce got clemency a couple of months ago by Governor Hochul in December, and he got to stand before the parole board. And I think why people are attracted to these stories And I was hoping we could talk about, among other things, some of that today because he was in some of the worst penitentiaries in New York, from Attica to…

13:41 And that's just how it is when you go deeper upstate. So everyone's there, right? difficult it's not easy uh you watch guys uh you know guys you talk to today and you know tomorrow You can become bitter or you can become better. delving into material that I probably would never have read, you know, being a free man. third grade, right? Based on your reading level, they can determine how many prison beds that they're going to develop. These are things that most people don't know, right? Like 50%

17:27 You've got to wake up 6 o'clock in the morning. and just through deep introspection and reflection. you have to find a way. You got to find it within yourself to rise above the fray. that were all plagued with what we call crime genitive factors from, you know, substance abuse to dilapidated housing to, you know, just poverty. You build them, they're going to come. Similar to the 1994 crime bill that was signed by Bill Clinton and co-authored by our now President Joe Biden.

20:49 It's a wake up call for you and you begin to say, hold on, man, I fell for the trap. Because it seems like, obviously, you did find a way to be very disciplined and stick to it. And you give off this energy of a person You know, very few of them were in the law library. like affirmations or quotes that I would develop, of your most pure thoughts come in the midnight hour, in the midst of your sleep. And certain

23:55 what was it like It's indescribable. So I went straight from hell straight to heaven. He's too bad he's retiring soon. from around the country and I called the super about half hour before he was released because we had got word from another guard that was standing outside And then they both, at the same time, just ran to each other and embraced. And, you know, I'm sitting back.

29:07 stretches and solitary confinement that I'd rather him describe because I didn't Yeah, 88 men, 88 cells on a gallery in Sing Sing. Guys keep quiet. he doesn't move out of his cell. It doesn't matter, right? What's terrifying is there's been that keep, decade after decade, being a place where no one has hope. Unless you're a nut, right? Both of these communities, both of these places are, you know, crime is high, violence is high, right?

33:32 unless there's serious intervention to break the cycle of incarceration We have to fix that. You provide opportunity. think of a politician now and in in the context of helping solve these problems of racial disparity and the mistreatment of minorities in this country, go visit a prison. 70 years for a first offense in which the extent of the victim's injuries were four stitches.

37:33 He only has one eye. It's always a black man or a Latin man. It's okay to run and lose as long have these ulterior ideas that they don't corporations that have been sponsoring your campaign, that have been helping get things We know they're involved in doing these things. It's just like the system of these impoverished communities is deeply ingrained and generational.

41:16 in what many people are framing blew it up, which is one of the craziest things of all time. But that's why we're continuing to do this show. handling it from a big law firm named Greenberg Trarag. His name is Jordan Gratzinger. that has vast resources. And he said, I just want to do something. How do I get involved? as a listener? Grab your pens, all right? You can write to the Alameda District Attorney Pamela Price at 1225 Fallon Street in Oakland, California, 94612.

45:17 F-A-L-L. I think that she is, and read about the case, Pierre Rushing, just how it sounds. crawling across his chest as he sleeps. You donate because you actually wanna make a difference So if you want to be another grain of sand on that beach, hopefully the grain of sand will form a not because i think you know oh he's because he's earned it. And then I get a, you know, you get a little taste of what that's like to like to help you know stand next to him last night and watch him watch a comedy show

49:40 And I fucking blanked. These guys, you got artists, you got guys that, well, is prison the right answer? Right? to create better lives for themselves This is where it gets dangerous as batteries to generate money. The whole thing, it's fascinating that you brought that up. You're just missing the obvious conclusion here. One of the obvious conclusions is, you know, the leading, the leading cause of

53:54 Everybody knows Brownsville because Mike Tyson comes from there. Shannon Briggs. How do we solve the problem? I feel like I know the right levers to pull to get that done. night and it's definitely an honor to be here. And I feel very blessed to be your friend and to feel very fortunate that you have you've come on here and trusted this platform with all these stories, because it

56:32 And slowly but surely, something's going to happen. Decade after decade and it's going to take a lot of work Had no other examples anywhere around you of people that had hope and you felt like well And it's going to take a long time. So then I win $11,000 and then another $1,000. any one size fits all no and look i i told absolutely i told bruce last night um

59:54 You help innocent people get out of jail. And, of course, I thought, really? brightest legal mind in the prison system, said, one day I'm going to get out of here and I'm going Litigation. And they had brought the case, you know, right to the goal line. And they said, Yeah, Voices From Within, I'll start there. And what they do with these choices events is they bring in children whose parents are incarcerated and then begin, you know, having what they call playback theater, which is

1:03:41 who was also just granted clemency. And we did just that. in Sullivan Correctional Facility The Youth Assistance Program, YAP, that they have both in Sing Sing And that had made me cringe. Sometimes they bring in kids from high-end society Yes. Why are they bringing children On some level. This is on the stock market, CoreCraft. because they didn't want to build cells.

1:08:03 We're not building cells for our kids. and you're penalized for not engaging in slave wages, slave labor. And this was for sale at one point. okay, New York made 11 million Hey, how'd you do that? In real time. Just the fact that... This core craft, that's what it's called? Yeah. The fact um this is a guy that has a history of doing this for just the

1:10:51 that it's, it should shock people and it should, it should be a rallying cry. You know, if you've And to see some of these sentences, you know, 50 years, 70 years. And it's not just in California where And, you know, he got all so that is them facetiming me as Sheldon walked out of the gate and J.J. Velasquez is is the other gentleman It'd be nice to invite Joe to go in one day.

1:13:51 I got to take a leak. Let's pull this guy up. Whatever. To be honest with you, countless. attorney's office where they were convicted. And the Queens County district attorney's office where they were convicted and the Queens County district attorney's office, who is also reinvestigating Bruce's case, its conviction integrity unit is, you know, I mentioned earlier is reinvestigating his case, did not oppose Bruce's grant of clemency.

1:16:37 see this guy who was a former Queens prosecutor and then, you know, make a dangerous leap that therefore all prosecutors This is learned behavior. Scarcella. But what happened was where, you know, I love the quote, absolute power corrupts absolutely. But I also facts of his case and the people that read those papers are often corrections disciplines of forensic science, how it goes wrong, what to do if you spot it, whether you're a prosecutor or a defense attorney, how to, if you're a prosecutor, rely on it in a way that

1:22:23 I hadn't really ever seen Bruce mad, exacerbated. I'd seen him emotional, but never losing his cool. And I came in one day. And when you go to visit someone in a maximum security prison, it's a real ordeal getting in. It's behind bars. Everywhere I go, every time I see this corrections officer, he is trying to goad me. be the officer to come and escort me? This officer, John, right, that's had a hard-on for me. For some

1:25:57 I had no idea it was you that was on the visit. trying to pull me out of my character, you know. area, he would have definitely jumped So they come in with their military uniforms and they're stomping. and a lot of them are abusive because you can do that with them and like you talked about power so the the group of students who were acting as uh playing the role of correction officers became

1:29:01 You see it in, you know, last night we were going into a place to eat. And, you know, sort of impressing upon me how important martial arts is. a lot of introspection. But what does that say about humanity when you have a bunch of kids the audience the people that were coming to the show they were all fuckheads they were all they It emerges everywhere.

1:32:54 So if you're given these jobs, you have this extraordinary responsibility to people that have never developed character. You have to listen. That's what it is. want people to listen if you don't fucking listen no you have to listen you have to listen that's what it is you have to listen i mean is it is it natural or are they We recognize it. Yes. It's amazing.

1:34:55 Stealing money from drug dealers. Because they need to be, you know, desensitized or sensitized, you know, whatever their background is needs to be taken into consideration. But I couldn't agree with you more. You know, I can't stand when people that are so far left start talking categorically about police officers. who are you, Josh? And who do you want to be? I had always equated vulnerability with weakness,

1:37:33 because some of them hadn't met him yet. And he came to my class and, you know, like the faculty And I gotta tell you, I felt a shift in the way they looked at me from that moment. And it was like a great moment moment i felt more like a man in it's the strong and secure among us that I think you're, there's a long way of saying I agree with you. That I think if we teach our kids more, that just because someone is in a position of power

1:40:49 On my first day coming and taking the train. Because when he was The trauma that we experience from being kidnapped But it's very rare for me, just in my own experience, for people to get exonerated or serve long prison sentences to recognize that they need that. which I'm sure Joe knows way better than I do. But, you know, I just feel that way from my mind.

1:44:06 to undo the psychological and psychiatric damage. You could hope to keep it in check, last night smiling that was good, man. That sounds like Tony Hinchcliffe. give off that vibe I have a chance second chance to reinvent myself and I also you're still on this So, you know, once you begin that process and you say, I want to take this particular So you've got a group of formerly incarcerated guys who,

1:47:10 So now you have to Wound up doing time, gets out, turns his life around, His voice is sensational. He came to the mothership that night on cloud nine This guy's been out for a long time. And it wasn't him carrying Is he singing in this? Like, you would want him in your community. If you want to be depressed, don't do anything. Go get it. It can be done.

1:51:44 with my mama was you know all her students called Dubie. And I had a great rapport with his teacher. my whole life. And then I read the book And it stuck with me. Right. And I just loved to watch him as a father. That's real. sometimes very confused about you know his where he fit in and Probably the biggest payday of his career. Yeah. No pain, no gain.

1:57:25 I got a good laugh. It's incredible. And you can't build those relationships being bitter. these communities that have been just immersed in violence and crime forever. You know, there was a This is not fixing anything. that the vast majority of the prison population in New York comes from the same seven neighborhoods. So And he was so moved by the work and just meeting, I think it was really meeting Derek, right?

2:01:58 You know, there's something special about him. Well, the wild orchard, it only thrives and grows Whether you're guilty or not, you still want to honor the potential of that life that was lost. And seeing them is going to be the joy of my life, right? I'm so happy. I'm so happy. I'm so happy. I'm so happy. I'm so happy. I'm so happy. Man, I can't even describe it.

2:04:55 Without me even acknowledging it or realizing it, it just dropped down and I was just so accept my regrets and I still love what I see when I look in the mirror and I I always knew him as Bruce Bryant with a T at the end. It's at bruce.bryan24. We were talking to one of the comedians last night. I just can't thank you enough for giving us, again, this platform,

2:08:38 or a program that we Yeah, listen, I never anticipated in a million years Contributing to humanity, man, because it's going to take all hands on deck. This is also a part of that community, this podcast, all these podcasts. We need each other. It's the worst thing they could do to you. I have the deepest appreciation for you, too. We got to get Domeni to do a set.

2:11:41 And this gives them an opportunity to see things in a very different More.