Mike Benz

Date: 2024-12-03 | Duration: 2h 48m

Episode Overview

Mike Benz offers a detailed exploration of the complex machinery behind modern information control, focusing on the intersection of government agencies, private sector actors, and civil society in shaping online discourse. Drawing from his experience advising on technology and running a cyber division within the State Department, Benz outlines how censorship and counter-disinformation efforts have evolved into a sprawling, coordinated industry. He highlights key moments such as the 2016 U.S. election and the Trump presidency, illustrating how these events accelerated government intervention in social media platforms under the guise of protecting democracy from foreign influence and misinformation. Benz also delves into the geopolitical dimensions of information warfare, particularly U.S. involvement in Ukraine and the role of organizations like the National Endowment for Democracy in funding media and political influence abroad. He discusses how Western institutions have sought to counter Russian narratives while simultaneously managing internal political dissent through censorship and narrative control. The conversation touches on the challenges posed by academic and government-funded “disinformation studies” programs, which Benz critiques for their role in legitimizing extensive surveillance and content moderation efforts. Throughout, Benz emphasizes the need for a “whole of society” approach to information integrity, warning against top-down censorship models that risk undermining democratic principles.

About Mike Benz

Mike Benz is the Executive Director of the Foundation for Freedom Online, where he champions digital rights and free speech in an era of increasing online censorship. With a background as a former official at the U.S. Department of State, Benz brings extensive experience in navigating the complexities of internet governance and international policy. He is known for his advocacy in promoting transparency and accountability in online platforms, making him a pivotal voice in the ongoing debate about the future of free expression in the digital age. His insights and expertise make him a compelling figure in the fight against censorship and a noteworthy guest on the Joe Rogan Experience.

Key Moments

– Cybersecurity
– Censorship
– Disinformation
– Social Media Regulation
– State Department Influence
– Election Interference
– Information Integrity
– National Endowment for Democracy
– Intelligence Community
– Media Manipulation
– Geopolitics
– Ukraine Conflict
– Government Surveillance
– Propaganda
– Technology Policy
– Public Health Communication
– Political Polarization
– NATO
– Soft Power
– AI and Misinformation Detection
0:00:33 – Introduction to Ministry and Cyber Division Role
0:01:46 – Overview of the Censorship Industry
0:03:33 – Promotion of Free Speech on Early Internet
0:05:12 – Referendum and Russian Federation Annexation
0:06:14 – Media Takeover Attempts in NATO Countries
0:07:12 – Intelligence Control Over Social Media
0:08:07 – Timeline Leading to Elon Musk's Purchase of X
0:10:06 – Ministry of Truth and Orwellian Fears
0:11:22 – Cybersecurity Agency in DHS and Threat Flagging
0:14:15 – State Department's Election Control Strategies
0:15:30 – Internet Freedom and Trump's Censorship
0:17:41 – State Department's Back Channel During Trump Era
0:19:10 – Censorship Center and Time Magazine Editor's Insights
0:22:22 – 2016 Elections and Censorship Funding
0:24:11 – End of Russiagate and Political Fallout
0:26:56 – Censorship Justified as Democracy Defense
0:30:03 – Consensus Building Among Institutions
0:33:14 – 2014 Ukraine Coup and Zelensky's Rise
0:36:21 – National Endowment for Democracy's Influence
0:41:01 – Rise of Right Wing Populists and Energy Politics
0:44:43 – State Department's Role in Capacity Building
0:48:26 – Social Media Restrictions Since 2014
0:51:55 – Bipartisan Opposition to Trump
0:53:52 – Conflict Between Elon Musk and Intelligence Community
0:56:25 – Election Monitoring Strategies and EMBs
1:00:58 – Cybersecurity Turn and DHS Internal Meeting
1:03:03 – Disinformation Studies in US Universities
1:05:46 – Whole of Society Approach to Information Integrity
1:08:08 – Military Technology Dual Use History
1:10:17 – Social Media Policies on Harmful Misinformation
1:13:08 – COVID-19's Impact on Misinformation Perception
1:16:38 – Pentagon's Role in Information Shaping
1:21:33 – CIA Funding for Disinformation Research
1:23:07 – NATO Training for Journalists and Fact-Checkers
1:26:22 – Atlantic Council as NATO's Think Tank
1:34:14 – Internet Gag Orders and Low Information Voters
1:39:05 – Arizona State University Narrative Research
1:44:52 – Never Trump GOP and Disinformation
1:50:31 – Social Media Reporting and Takedown Processes
2:00:02 – 2016 Trump Victory and European Government Reactions
2:12:18 – CIA's Role in Opening Russia
2:30:11 – Strategic Importance of Donbass Region
2:37:36 – Joint Chiefs of Staff Influence in Policy
2:43:32 – Personal Inspirations and Closing Remarks

Transcript Excerpt

Starting point is 00:00:00 The Joe Rogan Experience Starting point is 00:00:33 away I was thinking, okay, this makes a lot of sense when you're explaining like the Ministry Starting point is 00:01:06 I sort of advised on technology issues and then I ran the cyber division for the State Starting point is 00:01:46 censorship industry, this giant behemoth of government, private sector, civil society Starting point is 00:02:23 freedom because censorship is promotion of censorship is sort of the flip side Starting point is 00:03:03 law. Starting point is 00:03:33 with promotion of free speech on the internet when the internet was Starting point is 00:04:09 So we already had this sort of deep interplay Starting point is 00:04:38 successfully did and I'm not even arguing whether that's a good or a bad Starting point is 00:05:12 in a referendum join the Russian Federation and that kicked off that that Starting point is 00:05:42 style, our media assets in the region. And they still didn't penetrate Eastern Ukraine. Starting point is 00:06:14 take over the media in these NATO countries and that's primarily social Starting point is 00:06:49 formally declared its tanks to tweets Starting point is 00:07:12 sphere in the intelligence world to take control over social media and then five Starting point is 00:08:07 up until around the time that Elon purchased X. Starting point is 00:08:25 I mean, he's sort of the timeline where we missed the bullet, Starting point is 00:08:53 there were events in the run-up Starting point is 00:09:23 from Chuck Grassley and other luminaries in Congress. There were a lot of Starting point is 00:10:06 Ministry of Truth scared the shit out of people just because of the Orwellian context of the Starting point is 00:10:36 thing from general public awareness. I mean in my own path I've tried to Starting point is 00:11:22 2019 that the cybersecurity agency in DHS Starting point is 00:12:17 and then suddenly you're being flagged by DHS as a cyber threat ac...

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Mike Benz was the guest on JRE #2237. This page includes the episode overview, topics discussed, and related resources.

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On Joe Rogan Experience #2237 with Mike Benz, topics include Cybersecurity, Censorship, Disinformation, and Social Media Regulation.

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