Caroline Fraser

Date: 2025-08-05 | Duration: 2h 7m

Episode Overview

Author Caroline Fraser joins Joe for a conversation about crime, lead poisoning, and the systemic forces that shaped America's serial killer era. Fraser's book — described as exploring crime and bloodlust in the time of serial killers — connects the lead pollution crisis to the crime wave that emerged when those exposed children reached adulthood. By the 1970s, children who had been exposed to leaded gasoline and paint during the peak pollution years were coming of age, and Fraser argues this is not a coincidence. The conversation covers the lawsuits that eventually surfaced the evidence, why we don't like to think about sociopaths (more common than we want to admit), a deeply toxic industrial environment and the literary author who dramatized its destruction, and the strange loop of using poison to treat the effects of poison. The episode touches on postwar European reconstruction as depicted in a recent series, and a brief tangent on why paper cups can hold hot liquid without dissolving.

About Caroline Fraser

Caroline Fraser is a Pulitzer Prize-winning author and editor renowned for her incisive explorations of crime and culture. Her latest book, "Murderland: Crime and Bloodlust in the ...," delves deep into the dark undercurrents of society, showcasing her ability to blend meticulous research with compelling narrative. With a background that encompasses both journalism and literary editing, Fraser captivates audiences with her unique insights into human behavior and societal issues. Her thought-provoking commentary and engaging storytelling make her a standout voice in contemporary literature and a fascinating guest on platforms like the Joe Rogan Experience.

Key Moments

– Lead poisoning and the crime wave — children exposed in the 1950s-60s becoming criminals in the 1980s
– Sociopaths — more common than society wants to acknowledge
– Industrial smelter destruction and its literary dramatization
– Using poison to treat the effects of poison
– Postwar European reconstruction depicted in recent media
– Lawsuits surfacing the evidence of lead exposure
0:15:46 – Fear of walking alone at night — the experience that shaped the era
0:32:19 – Lead as heavy pollutant — by the 70s the exposed children were coming of age
0:45:30 – Lawsuits eventually filed — kids going to court, evidence surfacing
0:58:55 – Sociopaths are more common than we want to think — we don't like to acknowledge it
1:12:16 – Industrial smelter — a planet that destroyed its environment, dramatized in fiction
1:26:35 – Poison to cure poison — the crazy logic of certain medical interventions
1:48:17 – Paper cups and hot liquid — the coating that makes it work

Transcript Excerpt

Starting point is 00:00:00 Thanks for doing this. Thank you for having me. So I've read about the premise of your book online and immediately I'm like, I got to talk to this lady. That sounds crazy. Please tell people what the premises is just so we get started with this. Yeah, well, I started thinking about this a long time ago. The book's called Murderland. Yeah, the book is Murderland and I grew up in the Pacific Northwest in the Starting point is 00:00:41 1970s around the time when there were a lot of serial killers beginning to pop up. There always had been this question, why are there so many serial killers in the Pacific Northwest? And so that was the question I was really thinking about. And the premise as it emerged from the research that I did and from some of the facts that I learned about what was happening in the Northwest in this run-up to the 1970s is that there may be a connection between the lead pollution that was prevalent in the area because of smelters and leaded Starting point is 00:01:28 gas and serial killers. Because lead, of course, as we, I think, most people now know, has a connection to heightened aggression and violence in the people who've been exposed to it. So that was, you know, what emerged to me gradually over the years. I mean, I didn't know a lot about this when I started. I knew about the serial killers, but I didn't really know about the whole lead story. And that came about, you know, I learned about it in part because of some murders. I mean, I live in Santa Fe, New Mexico, which is a lovely place. Unfortunately, New Mexico has a high rate of homicides. In part, it's because it's a poor state and doesn't Starting point is 00:02:31 have a big tax base and has, you know, some issues with drug and alcohol addiction. And few years ago, maybe 2008 or something like that, some people, a couple of people were murdered down the street from me. And I live in a very peaceful neighborhood, you know, very. And that was something that r...

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Frequently asked about this episode

Who was the guest on Joe Rogan Experience #2360?

Caroline Fraser was the guest on JRE #2360. This page includes the episode overview, topics discussed, and related resources.

What topics were discussed on JRE #2360?

On Joe Rogan Experience #2360 with Caroline Fraser, topics include Lead poisoning and the crime wave — children exposed in, Sociopaths — more common than society wants to acknowledge, Industrial smelter destruction and its literary, and Using poison to treat the effects of poison.

Where can I read the transcript for JRE #2360?

The full searchable transcript for Joe Rogan Experience #2360 with Caroline Fraser is available on this page, along with key topics and timestamps.