John Kiriakou

Date: 2025-10-10 | Duration: 2h 35m

Category: Politics & Media, True Crime & Justice

Episode Overview

John Kiriakou — former CIA counterterrorism officer who became the first U.S. government official to publicly confirm that the CIA waterboarded detainees, and subsequently went to prison for it — joins Joe for an unflinching conversation about intelligence agency accountability, whistleblowing, and what actually happens inside the CIA. Kiriakou details his treatment of Abu Zubaydah, the government's false claims that he was cruel to detainees, and the FBI interrogation where he was asked about the Sam Adams Project (a CIA whistleblower award he'd never heard of). He reflects on his prison experience, including an Australian arsonist cellmate who walked him around on day three. The conversation covers January 6 in unprecedented detail — Kiriakou describes federal government employees on the Capitol lawn actively trying to get people to go inside — and a massive detention operation where prisoners were held in the desert before being dispersed to jails across the country. He also discusses the 2012 repeal of the Smith-Mundt Act that made government propaganda of American citizens legal, and a counter-intelligence operation run out of a rented office with Israeli contacts.

About John Kiriakou

John Kiriakou is a former CIA counter-terrorism officer renowned for being the first U.S. official to publicly confirm the agency's involvement in the torture of detainees. His whistleblowing in 2007 shed light on controversial interrogation practices, sparking national and international debates about human rights and government accountability. After serving time in prison for leaking classified information, Kiriakou transitioned to a career as a journalist and author, sharing insights on intelligence and national security. His compelling narrative, marked by both his commitment to transparency and his personal sacrifices, makes him a captivating figure in discussions surrounding ethics in intelligence operations.

Key Moments

– CIA waterboarding confirmation and going to prison for it
– Abu Zubaydah — Kiriakou's treatment and the government's false accusations
– FBI interrogation and the Sam Adams Project
– Prison — Australian arsonist cellmate and surviving day one
– January 6 — federal employees on the lawn urging people to go inside
– Smith-Mundt Act repeal — government propaganda of Americans made legal in 2012
– Counter-intelligence operation run from a rented office with Israeli contacts
– Presidents unable to control intelligence agencies
0:15:18 – Presidents can't control the agencies — what we know is only a small fraction of what was done
0:30:11 – Abu Zubaydah — Kiriakou was the only one who was kind to him; government's false accusations
0:48:41 – FBI interrogation — asked about the Sam Adams Project, which he'd never heard of
1:03:20 – Ready to fight the Obama administration — and being wrong about it
1:17:23 – Three days into prison — Australian arsonist cellmate walks him around to meet the guys
1:31:57 – January 6 — federal government employees on the lawn trying to convince people to go inside
1:46:25 – Detention operation — hold them in the desert then disperse to smaller jails around the country
2:14:54 – Smith-Mundt Act repeal — changed the law to make propagandizing Americans legal
2:28:21 – Counter-intelligence — rented an office to meet with Israeli contacts

Transcript Excerpt

Starting point is 00:00:00 Joe Rogan podcast checking out The Joe Rogan Experience Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night All day So you were saying you replaced Mike Baker Yeah Mike's a great guy He was a good officer He was Starting point is 00:00:18 He doesn't really talk about his work a lot Maybe it's because a lot of years have passed But he was the real deal I replaced him in Athens And he had done a lot of preliminary legwork in Athens. Athens was a tough place. At the time, the American government spent more money on security in Athens than they spent Starting point is 00:00:39 anywhere else in the world, including Beirut. Why? It was a combination of two things. There were two indigenous Greek groups that were exceedingly dangerous. One was called Revolutionary Organization 17 November. They had killed the CIA Station Chief, two U.S. defense attaches, just bad guys all around. The other was called popular revolutionary struggle. And then on top of that, you had Abu Nidal, the Libyans, the PFLP, the PFLP, G.C, the DFLP, everybody was there. Because there was this Starting point is 00:01:14 informal agreement between the Greek government of Andreas Papandreou at the time and these terrorist groups that if you don't kill Greeks, we'll leave you alone. Oh, boy. Yeah. but killing Americans wasn't part of the deal so it was every man for himself wow your story is pretty nuts man it's and your story of getting in trouble and eventually going to prison for something that was what they were doing what you reported on was completely illegal and you were completely honest about it um and it was essentially about the u.s torture program right tell us how this all started. Like, how long had you been involved in the CIA? Oh, by then I'd been in the CIA. Well, by the time I got to Pakistan as the head of counterterrorism operations after 9-11, Starting point is 00:02:13 I'd been in the CIA almost 13 years. And I was responsible for all counterterrorism operations in...

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Frequently asked about this episode

Who was the guest on Joe Rogan Experience #2392?

John Kiriakou was the guest on JRE #2392. This page includes the episode overview, topics discussed, and related resources.

What topics were discussed on JRE #2392?

On Joe Rogan Experience #2392 with John Kiriakou, topics include CIA waterboarding confirmation and going to prison for it, Abu Zubaydah — Kiriakou's treatment and the government's, FBI interrogation and the Sam Adams Project, and Prison — Australian arsonist cellmate and surviving day one.

Where can I read the transcript for JRE #2392?

The full searchable transcript for Joe Rogan Experience #2392 with John Kiriakou is available on this page, along with key topics and timestamps.