Joe Rogan Experience #994 — Dom D'Agostino Transcript

Transcript

0:00 Boom and we're live. How are you Dom? Welcome to the show. I'm doing great Joe. Pull this sucker right up close. There you go. Maybe the dry farm wines guys think that... you can completely stay in ketosis. Interesting. Most glasses, most wine will kick you out of And even beer does. Even though it's supposed mean, this is important for, you know, people that are doing it to manage their health long term.

2:53 where there's good peer reviewed research to support the efficacy as a metabolic based therapy you can largely silence the pathology and the motor function impairments associated with this disease. And that's amazing to me that you have a disease that is persistently there due to a genetic Okay. 14 hours, you know, that's clinical. on eating fat and with a minimal amount of protein,

6:22 it's suppressing the hormone insulin and kind of mimicking the fuel, the substrate utilization that you would be using in a state of being fasted, The brain has the metabolic flexibility to adapt from using glucose to using primarily ketone bodies. source uh the keto pet sanctuary actually treats dogs uh that have cancer and they implement a Yeah. It's really interesting. I was talking with Ron Penna yesterday from Quest Nutrition, the CEO of Quest Nutrition, and he brought to my attention that if you look on a package of dog food, you won't see carbohydrates listed, even though it's the primary because there was some laws or policy put into action to prevent carbohydrates from even being listed on kibble, on dog food.

9:41 in fat, relatively speaking. Yeah, but dogs, you know, really should not be eating any kind of grains at all. ideally, you know, you want to give your dog like a whole food nutrition, just like humans, But fresh meat from a butcher, That's got to be very difficult to package, though, in something that's sort of evergreen. It may not be on the shelf and probably ideally shouldn't be on the shelf, but it'll be like in the refrigerator section of your pet food store.

12:25 of like organ meats to you know the proper types of fats uh you know fish oil fats and and fiber I don't know. And actually I was communicating online on a nutrition forum on a fitness website. So when they're underwater, a limitation for their time underwater is CNS oxygen toxicity. So that's the advantage, that they're very stealth-like. and it puts you at the potential of having a seizure.

15:31 mitochondria and observing that ketones essentially enhance brain energy production and resilience in So being able to consume something that can elevate these blood ketone levels, which can status epilepticus, which is continuous seizures that you can't stop, instead of giving them an Yeah, I started doing it myself to get a better understanding. this hippocampus. I said, you know, just use this. And that was maybe about 2008 or 9-ish.

18:52 actually uh because he had what what i would call and what the doctors call terminal epilepsy Why would you typically avoid it? vagal nerve stimulation and other things. But the ketogenic diet has been around so long, What are those side effects? So essentially the big issue is just the protein. And they call it, clinically they call it the 4 to 1 or the 3 to 1 ketogenic diet.

24:02 is pretty doable and pretty palatable. So that's how you do it? And I could talk more about that. That's the actual app name? I know of its kind that's like a macro tracking system that also gives you feedback on how to Now, I got a bunch of questions. I don't try to... Does she eat pasta in front of you and mock you? Like when I go home, yeah, I grew up on pasta.

27:32 Well, I really thought that you need carbs to grow in the gym and maintain your strength I don't know if he's going with the classical ketogenic or the modified Atkins, He may benefit from adding some slow carbs in just prior to an intra workout, maybe a little bit of sweet potato in, you know, prior to training or the day before maybe a few hours before

29:33 which is ideal for people engaging in MMA or cycling during that time frame. days to a week or more so it's just you know on a daily basis doesn't matter necessarily when you that I get. A lot of people like the tingles like niacin type tingles and it's not I just didn't like it. What do you weigh? And when I came back up. So I tried to get my body weight from 226 down to 207.

32:42 I did intermittent fasting really just transitioned to Yeah. of almonds i think is like 500 calories or something crazy. I was told I don't have to count that. And whenever I see that happen, I go, oh, here's a person whose ideas are threatened. This makes me think that you have been pushing a certain type of diet for a long time. it's very critical that they have energy, right? We're talking about fighters. So for them,

36:40 So what I've seen in elite level cyclists and other types of sports is that it after about two or three months and you're talking about benefits on a cellular level not a performance first week or two like I was just dry and I would do like a hard workout I was I mean, your performance will go down and then start to creep up back to baseline at around the six-week mark.

39:40 body in such a profound way. Well, one of the first things that I noticed, I thought there was no getting around that. throughout my day and then it'd be like four o'clock in the afternoon. I'm like, where's this just significantly attenuates that insulin response that you get. asymptomatic for hypoglycemia. And this was They'd all die. The IACUC Committee, the Animal Care and Use Committee would, you know, put

43:37 they were liberating a lot of fat from their adipose and making lots of ketones. transporter type 1 deficiency syndrome or glut 1 deficiency kids that can't use glucose as an energy source with But I also think that a ketone supplement can just same individuals on a ketogenic diet or a carbohydrate glucose-based diet in terms of did and wrote a book on Alzheimer's

47:46 with this supplement. It was a fat that when you consume it, independent of the amount of function. So I'm thinking with a ketone ester or other types of ketones, you could elevate that to and a ketone PET scan, at a deficit. But we could say we're all at a deficit, right? So tomorrow I'm jumping on a red use them almost kind of sparingly, but I do tend to use them every day. The supplements that I've

50:56 pretty important. And that's what happens when you mobilize body fat. that will be optimized. So our company is working on that. We don't have any products yet, So there's a couple. simply just eating sardines like it's like the perfect food. sardines, fatty fish, a lot of salmon and a lot of egg yolks and fatty cuts of meat. But one thing about sardines is that they can be farmed in a sustainable way.

55:21 some some boats coming in and those sardines are going to various plants so uh we had like a peach orchard and apple orchards are notorious for this, for having high levels of arsenic just based on the chemicals, you know, that were used over time. Yeah, it's fantastic. Should they stop eating, you know, ahi tuna or swordfish and things? and, uh, no ill effects. Uh, well, I never got tested at the time. So nowadays I tend to do a

58:51 Oh, wow. Just weird tingling and feelings, like kind of neurological effects. And sometimes, you know, it may not show up in the blood in the serum. b12 is something uh I do supplement magnesium too how could you get b12 depletion from ketogenic and it would start in my foot and then start to creep up to my cab and or if I I think there's pretty legit uh science

1:01:44 thousand pounds of epsom salts in it epsom salt baths you know higher magnesium can calm them down and and also maybe mitigate some Yeah, but the tank is just when you get out of there, your whole body just feels relaxed. You've got to try it. and it has a gene defect that mimics the familial form of ALS, And we reproduced the same study using this gold standard mouse model.

1:05:52 And those supplements had a therapeutic effect on deantetodone. compelling. And it's an extension of work that has already been done, really, and further that with some of the ketone esters in development right now we've observed using a range of different with some ice cubes in it you can keep it around for about a half hour but i generally try to drink

1:08:13 I don't think I did. I'd be curious. Who knows? ketones is that it lowers blood glucose. And we don't know why. down. taking lots of ketone supplements you are eating a lot more than 2 000 calories of food because people always would say. You need glucose to fuel your brain. And that enzyme is really the gatekeeper. you're inhibiting the PDH complex if you're on a ketogenic diet. And I don't think there's evidence

1:13:12 many of the rate limiting steps that are associated with impaired glucose metabolism in the brain I don't, you know, like my wife does not eat, I mean, she eats a relatively high carbohydrate And this is just from taking a product? of type 2 diabetes like our government spends way more uh it's like 200 billion dollars of funding for managing uh diabetes uh and you know nasa's budget is something like

1:16:02 like 89, almost 90% of people from the data they collected so far and published, almost 90% of people, maybe 89 or 87%, can either completely get off insulin or, like, reduce it down to very low levels just simply by using a carbohydrate-restricted ketogenic diet. It's just stunning. That's an alternative form of energy. our body can exist off of glucose but really we're designed to live off fats? Like what is the cause?

1:18:49 Now for athletes, when you're talking about people that like maybe they don't need it for that, you know, I mean, you're asking like, um, why was your question? Like, why aren't people But people are horrible predictors or estimators of how many grams of carbohydrates. and that would have me And appetite suppression and just kind of, and that's how it's thought that the ketogenic diet

1:22:24 will be balanced in a way that would make seizures much less likely to transition to a ketogenic diet, I mean, the highs, there's way few highs and way few lows. you have surplus calories. So high carbohydrate diet is completely manageable in people who know you didn't eat for a few hours, you just started getting, God, I got to eat. And you have this

1:25:01 when i would kind of go off the wagon and eat a half of a box of Toll House cookies. But yesterday I ate three packets of something called keto cookies. And I put some chip bar where could one get these uh just go to keto cookie.com and so they are that's like my of speakers there were on the show uh gary talves was there rob wolf was there i didn't get to speak

1:27:29 That's really fascinating. but they'll just look and stare into space and then wake up out of it. Yeah, you know what? i just take an actual syringe like needle and just plug it in i have yeah so i just i don't really feel sure you're completely comfortable being out on front of the stage. Uh, but for people that have anxiety problems, which is a big part of people who have stress,

1:30:10 compared to bow hunting when drawing back on a live animal and your heart starts racing and you something i'm getting into uh i was talking with uh quest ceo last night uh about buteco uh guy in That's your drive. vasodilation effect and can maybe reverse even and hyper oxygenate systems in your body. I'll connect you guys. You bite into them. Like it tastes good, but there's something about chewing it and eating it.

1:33:39 And there's absolutely no glycemic effect, and I'm getting huge amounts of phytonutrients in it. they don't taste bad actually they kind of slammed her It's stunning to me how much mouth pleasure factors into people's lives. You're 7. Like, Jesus Christ, if this is the most suffering you get in a day, talk about first world problems. But once they know the science behind it, like the CEO sent me a stack of research papers

1:36:19 like i don't crave never happened to me it's's gotten close, but man, I smell some fresh bread or a bowl of pasta like linguine with clams. Not so much. And when you eat the ice cream, I mean, it just blows your mind that this is ice cream that you could eat every day, a big bowl, and stay on a ketogenic diet. So if you like Google keto brownie, it'll come up.

1:38:16 Have you had a Cave Shake? i'm big on those man yeah those are giant they're made with um a lot of good stuff in there but i fashion, a James Beard award winning chef, which I didn't even know what that was until I looked the bugs in there but uh for a large part like if you get you know every we have a certain threshold where i bet if i just stopped taking it for a long time stop eating it for a long time but that's been

1:41:31 That's not unlike the recipe I was just talking about. And did you have pasta and pizza when you were in Italy? And I talked to… between how your body tolerates certain gluten, whether it's gluten sensitivity or not, And did you get any, you don't have any, all over the place, my wife loves to travel. Uh, were in Naples, and I ate maybe two or three pieces of pizza.

1:44:09 and that that flour is essentially heirloom flour. Well, that's a – Good question. sandwiches and just take exogenous ketones and maintain pretty much the exact benefits and yeah you can do that and a lot of people are kind of the ketones function as signaling molecules that inhibit anti-inflammatory processes. restriction and uh and ketones and he observed that ketones elevating ketones has a signaling

1:47:57 So they are people that will be more receptive to the benefits of the ketogenic diet as we age. So you're actually turning on genes that are neuroprotective, that are cellular protective, Sure, but wouldn't that just be better suited for the diet? can get really complicated. The important thing is that the salts that you consume that are commercially available, the D form is more

1:50:46 taking exogenous ketones. because it's too high in fat. Max adhere to and stick to a ketogenic diet as an adjuvant to his standard of care. That's amazing. they essentially reached out to us and say, there's significant interest in this from the National Cancer Institute and National NIH, National Institutes of Health, to use the tumors that have dysregulated mitochondria they can't use the ketones for fuel nearly as well

1:54:56 for glioblastoma or advanced metastatic cancer, I think the ketogenic diet can kind of be a base therapy for a more comprehensive metabolic-based program. much weaker than when they came in. So a therapy can be developed that when the patient comes in It's just going to take some time to do it. that's amazing. It's just... Yeah. Hyperbaric oxygen therapy actually is FDA approved for

1:57:41 and install it inside the chamber and then we close it up and then we from cancer cells, which have damaged mitochondria. And if you give them more oxygen, But now we have, if we go to clinicaltrials.gov and you just look up ketogenic diet, you see more than a dozen studies. Yep. When were you on Tim's show? Well, you know. He runs the Pediatric Center in Calgary right now.

2:01:48 If not for just longevity effects, for anti-inflammatory effects, when things pop up and we're under stress, like I had an email yesterday, a person had severe shingles or severe like outbreaks of even the like fever blisters or something like taking. So even something like HIV, which contributes to neuroinflammation and even So I'm in the, like, it's been, it's crazy because I only have such so much of a bandwidth,

2:04:12 what we do, we basically have a wound that's a pretty, pretty nasty wound on the back of a rat, ketone supplements enhance the wound healing not only in the aged which was pretty remarkable and And not only does it restore the energy to the wound healing, which can allow cells to replicate and heal up the wound faster. Standard chow. So in the diabetic wound, the problem is that it's really a blood flow problem.

2:07:25 Yeah. That's, I mean, that seems like that would be the move for someone who's recovering from some sort of a the wound healing process by putting things on the wound, you know, but where wound healing is healing in the first place so uh yeah i mean this was really like it was presented at the data in terms of like, what is the percentage of increase in healing across the board with the

2:10:12 which are often dysregulated you know at the wound site so it's doing a lot of not only just restoring and eat it. So we are hardwired. I mean, to answer your question, I think a while back you asked, And yeah, she's super awesome. Absolutely. the first time I actually started experimenting with fasting or even a calorie restricted Just water? point after no calories i was starting calories at all no calories after seven days just water

2:14:07 maybe eight reps for eight or 10 reps with like 565. And I was able to do 10 easy reps with five comfort zone, that was like a big step for me. So I kind of just did it to mentally liberate myself And I was just kind of floating around. tenure track position. So it allowed me to work on manuscripts and proposals and just put thoughts together that maybe I otherwise either wouldn't have the time to or the mental kind of resources

2:16:49 And I typically sleep till like seven, but I was able to like wake up and just focus and get a ton My ketones were like double what my glucose was at a couple time points during that. in this fasted state and also precancerous cells that may be in the transition Wow. Did you, I did a podcast with rob wolf where he was talking 382 days. and you shrink down to a normal sized person, they have to cut your skin or you just walk around

2:20:35 guy was like 500 pounds and he fasted for like 381 days or 82 days. And he went down to 190 pounds. And the remarkable thing is that he sustained that They did give him an electrolyte. Yeah, fasted 382 days. Really? And I talked about, you know, towards the end, I was like, well, I followed the QJ diet myself. Seven years ago. So it was like 85 to 88% fat.

2:23:55 achieve. If you're up to one millimolar, which is like mild ketosis, you take a hundred people out Her boyfriend, Brian Carraway, I know he was ketogenic for a while. their output is really high. a mild state of ketosis, Ridiculous output. And actually work with a coach or work with an app like Avatar Nutrition or something where they calculate the macros and they actually know they're hitting the macros.

2:26:46 done with work, you know, I'm not frantically running around trying to get stuff done so I can If I kind of pay attention to, you know, eating really low carb, like I can eat and before I go to bed, test my ketones and bam, I'm hitting like 2.2 or something. So I continue to get the benefits of having ketones. a profound effect. Now, someone told me that there is an effective way to measure ketones through breathing,

2:29:01 And acetoacetate can break down spontaneously decarboxylates to something called acetone, which you know is nail polish remover, right? pretty color, you know, the kids like it and everything. It is kind of hard to like set it up. So it's pretty good, but blood is the best. You could adjust your diet or drink a supplement to optimize you into a range you know maximizes

2:31:54 One, physical performance. Those studies need to be done. them are going on right now and some of them I'm kind of involved in. And probably most important application whether it's a pure strength application or what i call strength performance these things are formulated in the way they're dosed and in what type of application, whether when guys follow a well-formulated ketogenic diet. And he recently did a study using a ketone salt

2:34:49 He just presented it here. really interested. I mean, we've done a lot of work in animal models, and now we're transitioning not the supplement that gives us the best margins for sales, but the supplement that's super optimized for particular applications. at our metabolic therapeutics conference. And that's her area of expertise. Like when it's there's two sets of data that I've seen showing that migraines are linked to neuroinflammation.

2:38:06 seizure or even an absence seizure, but it's presenting as a migraine. And it's seizure-like, The Charlie Foundation's dietician, Beth Zupak-Kania is her name. on the market that are essentially medical foods or drinks that you can drink, you know, you can Like a lot of dairy protein, like whey, it kind of started with whey protein, my gut a little bit

2:40:57 but I know I'm not sure if people have studied it, but if they just, for example, symptoms so i think and this went this is in the medical literature it's like on pubmed she used a Yeah, yeah, yeah. I've just gotten too many emails from parents that have kids with epilepsy and also people who have cancer who use CBD oil. the students had to have a dia and it became like so much red tape but i'm going to revisit this

2:44:37 There's companies that have patented the specific cannabidiol on there, absolutely incredible that you could have a more robust person post-therapy. like what we can do about that in regards. And that has major implications for not only how we It was kind of unheard of. working in synergy for a common output. And this particular slide was the neuropharmacological

2:48:36 Okay, but there's like a half dozen publications to support each one of these. Thanks for giving me the platform. It's Real Foods Company. Like I vetted out a lot of things and just kind of very particular towards things that I really like and actually tested. on the product. And as far as I know, there's no other system like that. I mean, it's like, think of Weight Watchers, but like a

2:52:10 the Charlie Foundation, I really have to give, I acknowledge the Charlie Foundation in my TEDx talk, me because I had no idea that she did it actually. But it's that movie and meeting Jim, meeting Jim Thank you really. See ya. Thank you.